Brek You are dead on in some respects. 25 years ago, Bette Davis items sold for ten times what Joan Crawford items did. Why? There was a lot of talk about how she was a bigger star, but what it really came down to was that the handful of top Davis collectors who set the prices had a lot greater willingness to spend money than the Crawford collectors. The same was true of Laurel and Hardy vs Abbott and Costello.
Over time, these things tend to even out. All the time I see areas of collecting where the prices are being set by just two or three people, and I know that once those people are out of the picture, we will see significant changes in those prices. Cowboy posters are by and large down a fair amount over the past few years. I would say the leading cause of this is likely the double whammy of some leading cowboy collectors passing away, and having their huge collections sold into the marketplace, thus greatly increasing the supply while the demand is lowered, which obviously lowers prices. Collectors are a fickle group, and today's "hot" posters are often "icy cold" tomorrow. The very worst collecting strategy is to buy the very hottest items at the peak of their hotness. Had you bought the best Bette Davis lobby cards at the height of "Bette Davis mania" 25 years ago, you could not even get your money back today. As always, buy what you really like, try to get the best within a collectible type, and diversify if you possibly can (far better to collect one item each on 20 stars you like rather than 20 items on one star, to avoid putting all your eggs in one basket). Some people disagree with these ideas, but 40 yearsin collectibles tells me they are correct. Bruce On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 11:08 PM, Brek Anderson <brekanders...@comcast.net>wrote: > Don't take me so serious. There are no poster shows where I am so I sell > at antique shows. The Roger Rabbit guy was serious that his poster must be > worth allot because he liked it. And I know the 99% I mention really don't > have a clue what posters are worth. I personally don't think poster > collectors are nuts, well a little bit. Nor do I think great art investors > are nuts. I think anybody can spend there money how they want. > > > > If I had enough excess money, I would be bidding on the hundred thousand > dollar posters, and million dollar art. I might even buy a $50,000 pair of > spurs. Then you would all think I am really nuts. > > > > My point is, it is pointless to presume that all people think the same. And > the reality is there isn't a vast majority of people who buy movie posters > over a $1000. Just as there aren't allot of people out there to buy $50,000 > spurs, but there out there. Most people think they are nuts, but I don't. > Sure the Roger Rabbit example is far out there, but the Gone With the Wind > example could happen. To tell people what they should or shouldn't spend or > how much they should sell their items according to you or what the last few > have sold for is not right (unless you use Obama's price Czar). > > > > Brek > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: twoni...@aol.com > To: brekanders...@comcast.net, MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU > Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 9:35:12 PM GMT -07:00 US/Canada Mountain > Subject: Re: [MOPO] ebay poster prices > > *Your examples really are conjecture without making any real sense. > There isn't a single person in the entire world that would pay $900 for a > Roger Rabbit. What is the meaning of what the ill informed person thought > the posters were worth? Nothing is the answer. The only thing that matters > is when people open their wallet and take out the money.* > *As for what people think of the few that spend thousands for posters and > believe they are nuts. You are dreaming. Ralph DeLuca just paid a ransom > for a one sheet of Dracula and it was probably the most astute purchase > anyone has made in years. He was written up in a slew of articles and it > gave him a huge amount of free advertising. It allowed him to just add a > huge amount of posters to his inventory and I assure you, if he wanted to > sell it, I would bet on a profit.* > *Let me ask you one question. Do you think the people who pay millions > for art are nuts? * > *The answer is very simple. Supply and demand determine all prices and > when people place unrealistic prices on anything the items don't sell. > Hoping for the one fool in a million to come along is mainly a waste of > time.* > ** > *I do not believe in conjecture where the examples are unrealistic. This > is why I posed the problem of wading through the same overpriced listings > week after week. There is a difference between a person thinking Roger > Rabbit is valuable but learning that he was wrong at a show and a person > listing a $8,000 poster week after week for $21,000 and learning nothing.* > *Claude* > > In a message dated 6/28/2009 10:25:45 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > brekanders...@comcast.net writes: > > I guess nobody liked the pricing Czar suggestion. As far a reality goes, > I was just selling at a show where a guy came up to me and said he had the > two of the coolest posters and wanted to know how much they were worth as he > was looking at the price of my Dr. No. The first was Raiders of the Lost > Ark, but his favorite was Who Framed Roger Rabbit?. Now he thought Who > Framed Roger Rabbit was more valuable to him than Dr. No. Now if 1000 people > in the real world, who don't know even a very few pay well over $100,000 for > select rare posters, paid $900 each for Roger Rabbit, wouldn't that drive > the price up? (It probably would because most of the Roger Rabbit posters > have been thrown away). > > > > Believe you me, the non collectors (that is over 99% of the population) > think people must be nuts to pay over $1000 for a poster. If 5 or 6 people > all the sudden want a Gone With the Wind at any cost, the new value would > change. > > > > I think all this talk of what is too high and who is a bottom feeder is > rather condescending and arrogant. If the above happened With Gone With the > Wind, the person that might have it priced at $100,000 might be too cheap > and change from over priced to a seller to bottom feeders. > > > > I still think the pricing Czar would be the best way to end this endless > discussion. One of you must have some ties the One to get this done. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Richard Halegua Comic Art" <sa...@comic-art.com> > To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU > Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 1:07:16 PM GMT -07:00 US/Canada Mountain > Subject: Re: [MOPO] ebay poster prices > > Dave > > you have made a mistake in this post. Heritage does indeed sell items that > they own. They have a whole warehouse of stuff from which they sell and at > the Profiles auction they spent a stack of jack for posters to sell. In > addition they get contacted by people who wish to sell and not wait for > auction > > also, you didn't mention my own 99 cents auctions. > while I do sell on consignment from only a couple of sources, most of what > I sell I own. I spend my own money on collections with the intent of selling > virtually all of it in my auctions. so everyone who sells at auction is not > a consignment house > > Bruce also sells some stuff he owns, or he used to at least. However in > Bruce's case, his consignments are likely in the 90%+ area > > Sean also sells what he owns > > now to Claude's basic statement.. He is correct to a great degree that > there are many sellers who have "pie-in-the-sky" expectations. > > here are some of those > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/Robin-Hood-1922-Original-Movie-Poster-Half-Sheet-RARE_W0QQitemZ320355952361QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item4a96b3e6e9&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A3%7C66%3A2%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A0%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50 > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/This-Gun-For-Hire-1942-Orig-Movie-Poster-Arg-1SH-RARE_W0QQitemZ320357604362QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item4a96cd1c0a&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A3%7C66%3A2%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A0%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50 > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/FUNNY-FACE-MOVIE-POSTER-AUDREY-HEPBURN-FRENCH-BRINI-ART_W0QQitemZ130314624035QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item1e575b5c23&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A3%7C66%3A2%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A0%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50 > > hilarious price here > > http://cgi.ebay.com/Bullitt-Original-Movie-Poster-Steve-McQueen_W0QQitemZ190317756833QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item2c4fd281a1&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A3%7C66%3A2%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A0%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50 > > this one is hilarious > > http://cgi.ebay.com/RARE-ELVIS-WILD-IN-THE-COUNTRY-MOVIE-LOBBY-POSTER_W0QQitemZ320389285856QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item4a98b087e0&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A3%7C66%3A2%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A2%7C294%3A50 > > every one of these is priced with nothing to do with reality, especially > the last 2 > > then you have the guys like Stuey Holstein whose obvious intent is to find > people that he can literally sting at levels that generations from now will > still not get to his prices (he is mostly in comics). > > The obvious keyword here is "intent". While Brek is correct that people can > ask whatever they want, if you want to remain in business for a long time, > you have to have some contact with reality. I do not like the feeling that I > have cheated someone and that after they find out what has been done to > them, they want to shoot me.. There are people who revel in cheating others > and fleaBay is an obvious showcase of such people > > there was a guy selling a Falcon Takes Over 1sh in nice condition. He had > it at $395 which is like top retail for the title (I need it as a Raymond > Chandler piece). It sat on fleaBay for 8 months. I finally offered him $250. > I never heard from him and the following day it was removed from fleaBay. He > didn't even askif I would pay $300. (I wouldn';t anyway, but an email would > have been nice) the guy was a comic book dealer who bought a load of > posters from someone and used Jon Warren's price book. So he had all kinds > of whacked prices. he wasn't looking for pie in teh sky, but the prices were > all at the top except for those items that had outstripped Warren's price > guide which was done years earlier. Jon is a dear friend, but his PG was > non-reality. > > There are the innocent fools, and there are those who take everyone for > fools. Who they are is always obvious to those in the know. > > Rich > > > > > At 06:42 AM 6/28/2009, Dave Rosen wrote: > > I'm not going to defend sellers who ask, as you say, "ridiculous" prices. > But I will say that comparing them to Bruce or Heritage may be a bit > apples-and-oranges. > > The sellers you refer to (though I don't know specifically who you're > talking about) are retailers who purchase inventory, then offer it for sale. > Thus their return has to cover the cost of the item plus overhead before > they see one penny of profit. Bruce and Heritage are consignment sellers. > They have overhead, certainly, but do not have cash invested directly in the > items they sell. > > Thus, when they auction stuff off starting at 99-cents or a dollar (really > $15 in Heritage's case) they are, in a sense, gambling with someone else's > money, the people who consign their posters to them. There's absolutely > nothing wrong with that, that's the nature of the business. That's just the > way consignment works. It means they can start their auctions lower and take > the risk that the lower starting price will attract more bidders. > > It works most of the time, but occasionally items do slip under the radar > and sell at prices that are much lower than the average market price. Bruce > and Heritage can afford to take that chance, particularly because they sell > thousands of posters and are popular online "destinations" and have a client > base in the thousands. Most other sellers are much smaller and can't > affordto take that chance. > > The other comment I have to make is, if the prices truly are "ridiculous" > then the items will not sell and the prices will come down. That's market > economics, I don't have to explain that to you. So your choice is to buy > somewhere else (if you can find what you want there) and/or wait till the > price comes down. > > It's that simple. > > Dave > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Claude Litton <twoni...@aol.com> > To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU > Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 8:55 AM > Subject: [MOPO] ebay poster prices > > > I have been searching ebay almost daily since 1997. My areas of search > are US originals Pre-1940 through 1960. I collect mainly posters in the > upper price brackets. In the last few years the amount of listings by too > many sellers with ridiculous prices has proliferated to the point where the > only thing certain is that not only don't they sell but more and more are > joining the pack. > > The prices are so high that you can't even make a serious offer because > it will be so low that they will either ignore you or send you a snide > retort. My reaction has been to totally ignore these sellers but it has > become a nuisance due to the number joining them. There are some on mopo > who do this but I am not referring to Todd who uses his million dollar > posters to get people to look at his other posters for sale. I am talking > about those who price all their posters at ridiculous prices. > > I don't even look at ebay daily any longer but wait for Bruce and > Heritage to offer what I want. (This is a good opening for Bruce to > comment.) I am still trying to understand their motives. Just look at a > one sheet of "Three Sons", a poster sold by Bruce for $56 recently and > priced at 10 times that on ebay. Let's face reality - People who are going > to spend $500 and up on a piece of paper will know their item, will research > it and will be careful about their money. $20 is an impulse purchase. $500 > is not. Can anyone explain these ridiculous sellers' motives? > > CJL > > > ------------------------------ > Make your summer sizzle with fast and easy > recipes<http://food.aol.com/grilling?ncid=emlcntusfood00000006>for the grill. > Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com > ___________________________________________________________________ > How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List > Send a message addressed to: lists...@listserv.american.edu > In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L > The author of this message is solely responsible for its content. > > Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com > ___________________________________________________________________ > How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List > Send a message addressed to: lists...@listserv.american.edu > In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L > The author of this message is solely responsible for its content. > > Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com > ___________________________________________________________________ How to > UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: > lists...@listserv.american.edu In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF > MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content. > > Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com > ___________________________________________________________________ How to > UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: > lists...@listserv.american.edu In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF > MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content. > > > ------------------------------ > Make your summer sizzle with fast and easy > recipes<http://food.aol.com/grilling?ncid=emlcntusfood00000006>for the grill. > Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com > ___________________________________________________________________ How to > UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: > lists...@listserv.american.edu In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF > MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content. > > Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___________________________________________________________________ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: lists...@listserv.american.edu In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.
