They resisted us on testing as well. But once upon a time we sued a school district that failed to provide services...and that knowledge lingers. Also, we were seeking a diagnosis and suggested modifications, not a an IEP designation. We would have gotten nowhere fast, I think, has we not known his previous IQ levels to be 135ish. I kept saying things like, so , you think these spelling patterns, reversals and formation issues are appropriate for a gifted fourteen year old???? I think our system is ill-equipped to think beyond those student with obvious needs.
Lori Jackson ----- Original message ----- From: Jan Sanders <jgou...@hotmail.com> To: Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies Email Group <mosaic@literacyworkshop.org> Date: Sunday, June 14, 2009 11:43 AM Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] ***SPAM*** Re: Do we really need to teach explicitstrategies? > Wow Lori, I want to respond, but don't know what to say. It truly is our > personal experiences that lead us to understanding -in reading and life. > > My oldest son (29) who has a very high IQ, can not spell correctly to save > his life, and it is difficult to read his writing. In elementary school it > was a constant thorn in his side. Every teacher up to the 8th grade harped > on him about it. In 4th grade he was even put in the spelling group with > the easy words. He now lives by his lap top and to me there is nothing > wrong with using technology. He did use a spell checker at school, but some > teachers even had a problem with that. GEESH! > > Why do we try to mold kids into something they are not? Why can't we just > accept them for who they are and help them grow? > > My daughter struggled in school from 4th grade on. She worked very hard to > get B's. I suggested testing, but was denied because her scores and grades > were too high. I kept telling them she was getting a lot of help from me at > home. Nope, no testing. Well, she is a phenomenal athlete and went to > college on a scholarship (her SATs were in the 800's). She struggled her > freshman year -we live in CA and she was in Massachusetts, so we thought > that might be part of the problem. Then the athletic director stepped in. > He got her tutors which helped some. Then he referred her to a > psychologist, and lo and behold, they ended up testing her. I have a 15 > page report about her and she has 3 major things that impede her learning. > One of them is she can not follow more than 3 things (3 steps is it). So in > lectures, she was still focused on point number 1 or 2 and the professor was > on 5 or 6. Anyway, she qualified for all kinds of accommodations. She had > note takers for every class, extra time on exams -and could have them > written or orally, tutors, recorded lectures... > > Maybe Lori, when he gets to college it could be pursued again. > Jan (I guess I had something to say after all) > > > On 6/14/09 6:47 AM, "ljackson" <ljack...@gwtc.net> wrote: > > > My youngest son is a brilliant thinker, a real outside the box kind of kid, > > but he reads slowly (with great understanding) and struggles with > > handwriting > > and spelling. This year, as an eight grader, we began noticing that he was > > struggling to correctly copy mathematical equations. He would err in the > > transcription, not in the solution, and then correctly solve an incorrect > > problem. He had a great year in language arts, but my husband was his > > teacher > > and believes that when laptops are available to students, they should all > > have > > the opportunity/choice to use them for drafting to publishing. Unlike his > > previous middle school language arts teachers, one in particular, who harped > > on him constantly about neatness, letter formation and spelling, his dad > > grades all kids journals for thinking. Even with the support of word > > processing, we both saw Isaac struggle with spelling of even simple words > > and > > began to push for evaluation in February. Sadly, because he is a brilliant > > kid who still scores well on the standardized tests by local standards, we > > met > > with resistance. I could point to the decline in his test scores but since > > they were high in comparison to our general population, we ere dismissed. > > His > > math instructor was quick to label him lazy and a behavior problem > > (something > > we have discovered she does with any child who is struggling) and he was > > pretty quick to let her know she was an idot (which she is not, but she was > > a > > non-certified, math phobic person assigned to proctor a poorly designed > > distance learning class and is does appear she pretty much hates boys). I > > ended up having to threaten to call the State Department of Education and > > file > > a complaint before they finally decided to test him. He did not qualify for > > services BUT was clinically diagnosed as dyslexic with a specific focus on > > dysgraphia. In other words, he could spell and visualize words correctly > > but > > then scramble them when asked to write the same thing. He cannot transcribe > > information well, makes reversals and transpositions that impact meaning. > > He > > is not lazy, he CANNOT do this due to a specific processing disorder. I had > > met someone about about a year ago with a son with the same diagnosis and as > > she described her son to me, along with the fight it took to get him > > services, > > she could have been talking about my son. > > > > Your post, the comment about a boy afraid to take chances, made me cringe > > Isaac was blessed with elementary teachers who saw his gifts and his > > brilliance and looked beyond, not without cringing, his spelling and > > handwriting. But when he got to middle school, all that changed. I honestly > > came close to decking his first language arts teacher as she messaged to him > > constantly that he was less than intelligent because of handwriting and > > spelling. Every conversation we had with this women centered around these > > issues--never with a suggestion that he might need to be tested, but always > > the message that he was lazy. She refused to allow him to word process his > > drafts, citing technology as a crutch, yet the kids did all their final work > > on some computer program and the program did the grading!! I feel so guilty, > > as Isaac is a free spirit and though I KNEW laziness was not the issue, I > > didn't see it as a learning disability. 25% of the kids who are truly > > dyslexic (and that is not a huge number, from what I understand) do not have > > any difficulty with reading but struggle exclusively with writing. What > > would > > have happened to my son, identified early on as gifted, if he had had > > teachers > > like this early on? Would anyone have seen him as the brilliant kid I know? > > How would that have impacted him emotionally and socially? Instead he was > > referred early to the gifted program and viewed as an outside the box > > learner. > > While those teachers never stopped trying to clean up the spelling and the > > handwriting, they saw beyond it. He has been so lucky. And now we have the > > diagnosis and required modifications that will help others to see beyond it. > > > > Okay, I am rambling, but here is some food for thought. The district > > psychologist, my husband and I both were in agreement that college will not > > be > > daunting for Isaac. There, it is common practice for kids to tote > > computers, > > tape lectures and to hire someone to edit and clean up their papers to meet > > style guide requirements. His passions are art, photography and computer > > graphics. He will do fine. However, we feared for him with the rather rigid > > expectations of our high school staff, many of whom think their laptop carts > > looks best when padlocked shut. "Once we get this boy through high school, > > he > > is going on to do great things," the psychologist spoke in the presence of > > my > > son. "This is a specific learning disability which can be accommodated." > > She > > went on to explain that his drop of 12 IQ points was probably directly > > related > > to his disability and thoroughly explained to my son the mathematics beyond > > standard deviations. He realized that the high end of the standard deviation > > was his previous IQ (or very nearly) and was able to understand he does not > > fit the test well, rather than see himself as 'dumb'. > > > > So as a teacher, I am taking this lesson away. There are children out there > > with organic reasons for poor handwriting (awkward, inconsistent letter > > formation, oddly spaced words and spaced between words) and poor spelling > > For > > some, this is the only manifestation of a learning disability. > > > > > > > > Lori Jackson > > > > ----- Original message ----- > > From: djchan <djc...@charter.net> > > To: Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies Email Group > > <mosaic@literacyworkshop.org> > > Date: Sunday, June 14, 2009 6:06 AM > > Subject: [MOSAIC] ***SPAM*** Re: Do we really need to teach > > explicitstrategies? > > > >> Renee, > >> I am a retired teacher and I found these same problems when I taught. I > >> think it comes from adults in the child's life who are controlling and do > >> not allow the child to learn by mistakes. I once had a child (boy) in my > >> first grade classroom who was held back because of failure to perform. > >> Trying to get him to put anything on paper was a nightmare. He was so > >> scared > >> of making a mistake that he refused to try to do anything. I later found > >> out > >> his previous teacher stood over him while working and pointed out every > >> mistake he made and he had to do it all over. It took over half the school > >> year for him to relax and gain confidence in himself before he could write > >> anything other than his name on a piece of paper. He ended the year well > >> but > >> had lots more 'trauma' to overcome from that year with the controlling > >> teacher. Children who have issues with self confidence ie "Is this right?" > >> have not been allowed to feel successful after a mistake and fear being > >> wrong and punished. They don't understand that it's ok to make mistakes and > >> that mistakes are normal parts of learning. > >> I hope you have a very successful school year next year. > >> > >> Deidra Chandler > >> MA Reading > >> MA Early Childhood Ed. > >> ps. I teach adult education now and still find this same mentality among > >> them. > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Renee" <phoenix...@sbcglobal.net> > >> To: "Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies Email Group" > >> <mosaic@literacyworkshop.org> > >> Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2009 10:32 PM > >> Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] Do we really need to teach explicit strategies? > >> > >> > >>> I teach Art to Kindergarten, first, and second graders. I have many, many, > >>> many students who constantly ask, "Is this right?" and "Can I (whatever)?" > >>> and "What do I do?" and many, many, many students who say, "I don't know > >>> how to (whatever)" and.... the most disconcerting of all.... many students > >>> who, right after I give directions for whatever we are doing and send them > >>> off to the tables to get started, will just sit there. Just sit, and sit, > >>> waiting for me to tell them to start, even though the paper and/or other > >>> materials is sitting right there in the middle of their table. I walk by > >>> and say, "I'm not sure what you are waiting for" and they look at me. > >>> > >>> This is all AFTER I give directions, perhaps model the use of a new tool > >>> or show a couple of techniques or show a few examples (which I then put > >>> away) to spark some ideas. I always end my introduction (which takes place > >>> as a whole group, sitting on the floor), with directions to go find a seat > >>> and get started. > >>> > >>> I really think this is a direct result of way too much direct instruction > >>> and focus on "the right thing" and "the right answer" and not enough > >>> discovery and/or inquiry. I base this, of course, on my own deductions > >>> relating to the degree of "is this right?" behavior among different > >>> classes (I taught 24 classes last year) and my impressions of their > >>> regular classroom teachers' teaching styles. Very unscientific, to be > >>> sure. :-) > >>> > >>> A story: > >>> I had one little boy this year, a first grader, who in the beginning of > >>> the year REALLY wanted me to tell him he was doing the right thing. Early > >>> on, I said to him, "This is art class. If you are following directions and > >>> taking care of the materials, whatever you put on the paper is going to be > >>> the right thing!" and after that, if other students asked if they were > >>> doing the right thing (which they did, often), I referred them to the > >>> first boy. On the last day of school, when we were charting what they had > >>> learned in Art class, my young man offered, "that anything you make in art > >>> class is the right thing." :-) > >>> > >>> Renee > >>> > >>> On Jun 13, 2009, at 6:02 PM, cnjpal...@aol.com wrote: > >>> > >>>> > >>>> Renee > >>>> ........ > >>>> I am very interested in your comment about kids getting into that place > >>>> where they can't function without modeling. Can you talk a little more > >>>> about > >>>> that idea for me? I tend to think that my kids ALREADY come to me like > >>>> that...even the K kids. Maybe what we need to model is independent > >>>> thought and > >>>> problem solving. > >>>> Jennifer > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> "The important thing is not to stop questioning." > >>> ~ Albert Einstein > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Mosaic mailing list > >>> Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org > >>> To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to > >>> http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org > >>> > >>> Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive. > >>> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Mosaic mailing list > >> Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org > >> To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to > >> http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. > >> > >> Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive. > >> > >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Mosaic mailing list > > Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org > > To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to > > http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. > > > > Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive. > > > > Jan > You do not really understand something unless you can explain it to your > grandmother. > -Albert Einstein > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Mosaic mailing list > Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org > To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to > http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. > > Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive. > > _______________________________________________ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive.
