I'm going to contribute to this discussion again. I want to counter some of
your basic arguments.
You seem to be trying to place MySQL newbies in the same level as computer
newbies. IMHO, this is a very bad thing to do. Someone who is going to be
working with MySQL is going to be using it for something well above and
beyond the level that new computer users are capable of. MySQL is a tool, a
tool to be used in combination with other tools such as programming
languages. If we use that logic, it meens that these people are going to be
learning something much more complex than MySQL such as, oh say, perl or
php.
If a person wishes to learn MySQL, and doesn't have at least a small amount
of technical knowledge by which to build upon, then more power to them.
They are helping themselves in the long run. HOWEVER, they should purchase
a book or some other resource that allows them to learn MySQL much more
easily. DOCS are built as a reference, not a tutorial. There are several
good MySQL tutorials out on the net or in books. The user just has to do
some work of their own and find them. Another thing you have to understand,
those of us screaming RTFM, are mostly upset at the certain questions that
are asked up to 3 times in a single day. Is it really that hard to check
the mailing list archives?
I try to help when, and where I can on this list. I spend a decent amount
of time every day looking through the mailing list and answering questions.
I do not get anything in return for doing this, other than the knowledge I'm
helping someone out. Is it really fair to me for me to have to go through
all the same questions 3 times a day to find the people the truly, honestly
need help with something that can't be found in the archives?
Well, I've had my say. And hopefully given you another perspective by which
you can look at things.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Doug Young" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Matt Wagner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Neff Patrick K"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2001 2:11 PM
Subject: Re: Please read the manual
> If I may add my 0.5c here too, the MySQL manual, like so many of its kind
> was obviously written by a highly skilled developer(/s) but who, like
> virtually all of that ilk, lacks the ability to impart knowledge to
others.
> As always, the issue is largely that of ignoring countless items
considered
> trivial by those of developer status but which are critical to others.
Most
> of us are aware that open source developers don't draw a wage etc like eg
> Microsoft staff, however that doesn't change the fact that the "official"
> documentation format is far from explicit enough for many non-experts. I
> personally believe the MySQL docs are probably a bit better than the
average
> for unix related applications but they still leave a lot to be desired.
Its
> a similar situation to that existing with most unix / linux man pages ....
> time & time again we see experts going on about RTFM, however all those
> things do is totally confuse newbies.
>
> Now before all the experts around here start yelling about how much they
> like the format of manuals etc etc, consider the amount of traffic on this
> list. I'm subscribed to a number of lists, but none of them generates
> anywhere near the traffic of [EMAIL PROTECTED] . That alone should
> provide clear indication that a heap of mysql users just can't get the
> answers they need from the documentation. A similar situation existed with
> FreeBSD for many years ..... newbies bugging the mailing lists because of
> inadequate explanation in official documentation .... experts going hoarse
> from screaming RTFM .... then fairly recently a few relative newbies went
> out & built some user-friendly tutorial sites that cut the level of newbie
> frustration dramatically. Hopefully someone who is new enough to MySQL to
> recall the needless frustration but experienced to make a contribution
will
> do something similar in the near future.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Matt Wagner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Neff Patrick K" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Friday, January 12, 2001 7:43 AM
> Subject: RE: Please read the manual
>
>
> > Neff Patrick K writes:
> > >
> > > <cut>
> > >
> > > I in fact finally got mysql up and running last night but not one
> > > word in your manual helped me do it. So in fact all the reading in
> > > the world would have left me sitting in the same position.
> >
> > Neff,
> >
> > What stumbling blocks in the documentation did you run across? What
> > can we add (new sections, rewordings, etc) to help the many that will
> > likely follow the same frustrating path you just did?
> >
> >
> > Matt
> >
> > --
> > __ ___ ___ ____ __
> > / |/ /_ __/ __/ __ \/ / Matt Wagner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > / /|_/ / // /\ \/ /_/ / /__ MySQL AB, http://www.mysql.com/
> > /_/ /_/\_, /___/\___\_\___/ River Falls, Wisconsin, USA
> > <___/ Developer
> >
> >
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>
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