Hey Jeremy, Michael,
I wanted to thank you both for your replies, they definatly have given me
some more insight into the situation, and also gave me some extra motivation to
keep my commitment to mysql. Like most other people, i hope this 'mess' can be
resolved in the near future.
Jeremy, to awnser your questions. The dispute, ofcource, is know to the
'outside world', as soon as you hit the mysql.com page, thats the first
articles one would see looking @ the page. It shows un-updated invites to
NuSphere, FAQ's and licencing disputes.. these are not words that motivate
middle-management (my client base) to have a 'good feeling' about the product.
As far as the Microsoft example goes, i must agree that people should 'open
there eyes', however, microsoft does do a lot of good things though as far as
PR goes. They know how to convince less-technical people that microsoft
products are a solid investment (even when that might not be the case).
Microsoft further greatly benifits from that fact that most anti-ms people
sound like religious freaks on a jihad, thus fail to communicate the points
that matter most. And its this great PR + FUD that gives MS the position it
still has. Anyways, enough on that.
The point is that when non-tech people go to the site, or read other news
sources about it, they either find information on the dispute, or on how
'postgres does 'feature N' better'.
So as far as your question goes on 'how to get that out to the world better',
that would probably be on the top of my list. Make sure that next to the news
worthy events (which the dispute is), people will see articles about things
like 'how to optimise your queries', 'why innobase or myisam is better',
'customer testimonials', 'mysql in the enterprise', 'mysql case studies'... The
stuff that makes middle-management or developers wanting to try out mysql go
'ohhhhh nice!'. The basic feel-good-factor. Some of these items were already
pointed out in these emails (used by nasa, now employing over 30 people up from
16, etc). Things like 'big guys using mysql in there projects' will work
miracles.
Zend.com is a good example of community / enterprise market type targeting ...
imidiatly one will see PR material and developer resources..
Jemery said it best: 'It might be worth pointing out mysql's excelent
reputation and track record'
(last, but thats my personal taste, i would love to see the site desing redone
using the new logo & colors)
Anyways, thanks for all your reactions, and i hope in turn i have been able to
give you guys some insight into my world.
-- Chris
Jeremy Zawodny wrote:
> On Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 04:45:07PM +0200, Chris Chabot wrote:
> > Hi Jeremy, thanks for a good reply. In awnser to some of your questions :
> >
> > Jeremy Zawodny wrote:
> >
> > > > Now, a few years after first using MySql, a major dispute seems to
> > > > plague the 'image' of MySql, and posibly also the future of the
> > > > product.
> > >
> > > The image of MySQL or NuSphere?
> >
> > There's no difference for end-users ... MySql is MySql right?
>
> End-users or developers? They're often not the same groups.
>
> > The finer points of dispute, and the parties involved are often mere
> > (uninteresting details) to end users who only want to 'feel good'
> > about tech descissions..
>
> Very true.
>
> But does the fact that Microsoft has been legally declared a monopoly
> (a decision which has been upheld in court already) impact their
> sales? People still buy their software in favor of lesser known
> rivals.
>
> I've found that people tend to be very selective in how they apply
> their arguments for an against software decisions. They're not
> internally consistent. I'm not sure what we can do about it, but it's
> often valuable to point out.
>
> > Middle management often will react in this way (want to 'feel good'
> > about the choice) since they lack the insight, or don't have the
> > time or patience to gain that insight into the situation.
>
> They should also realize that there are times when they should
> actually trust the people that they've hired because of their
> expertise in a particular area and not second-guess them.
>
> > > What are they asking, specifically?
> >
> > It's not 'specific questions' that one could awnser, unfortunatly
> > when selling products like content management systems etc, one deals
> > with middle management, and not knowledgable developers or top
> > managers.. By the time you have to explain why it's 'not a bad
> > choice after all' you have already lost the conversation..
>
> What really surprises me is that these folks have even heard about the
> dispute. Is it really that well known out side of the Open Source
> world?
>
> > > Will it help when you see MySQL 4.0 come out?
> >
> > Of cource mysql 4 (if done well by the time it hits 4.1) will help
> > strenthen the argument that MySql is here for the long run, and does
> > support there needs.. However its not the main argument .. All the
> > end-users (people who pay for feeling secure in there choice) care
> > about is reputation, PR and 'feeling good about..'
>
> It might be worth pointing out MySQL's outstanding reputation and
> track record.
>
> > > Where is 'there' for you?
> >
> > Thats actualy a tougher question then you thing, again it's all
> > about the gut feeling of the end-users. They hear it doesnt do
> > sub-selects, primary / secondary key relationships, stored
> > procedures..
>
> Whenever someone says, "but it doesn't do XX!" I ask, "do you need
> XX?" The answer is often, "no."
>
> > they here FUD being spread about MySql locking tables on inserts and
> > selects, thus not scaling well, etc .. This is natural up to some
> > point (ofcource mysql has its up and down sides, and in my case, the
> > upsides are what are relavent to my product), however the 'bad vibe'
> > easely swings that discussion around within people's minds.. Where
> > before MySql could get the benifit of the doubt, now the situation
> > might be reversed.
>
> How can be better combat that perception. MySQL *can* scale and *is*
> reliable. Do you have ideas on how we can better get the word out?
>
> > > You can assume that *something* is going on--maybe it's just
> > > lawyers talking at each other. NuSphere did just send some
> > > patches into the MySQL developers (earlier this week). I know
> > > that the folks at MySQL have been trying to get the dispute
> > > resolved.
> >
> > If NuSphere is sending in patches, atleast that would say that not
> > all is lost yet ;-)
>
> Yep. That's why I mention it.
>
> > Anyways, i just feel that @ some point a press-release that 'the
> > dispute has been solved in everyone's best intrest' (whatever that
> > means) would be very good for everyone involved...
>
> Well, I'm pretty sure that things aren't standing still.
>
> > It is for me to (thats how i started the email), however it would be
> > a great loss for me to invest years and tons of code into a product
> > and see it go down the drain ;-)
>
> You're not alone in feeling that way. But I haven't seen anything to
> make me believe this will happen with MySQL.
>
> Don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to dismiss any of your concerns.
> A lot of people have voiced similar problems on this list and in
> person. MySQL often isn't an easy sell in some organizations. But
> it's helpful to understand why it's not and what we can do about it.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jeremy
> --
> Jeremy D. Zawodny, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Technical Yahoo - Yahoo Finance
> Desk: (408) 349-7878 Fax: (408) 349-5454 Cell: (408) 685-5936
>
> MySQL 3.23.41-max: up 9 days, processed 116,985,022 queries (141/sec. avg)
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