Hi Alan, >Things are getting worse and we watch this and no >matter how many marches and petitions, they continue >to get worse. It's like watching the end of Weimar >(or something! - I wasn't around) - as far as art goes, >no one pays much attention, there's hardly any funding >left, and soon we'll be reciting the ten commandments >just to walk down the street...
Again, I agree with most of what you say, especially that things are getting worse. Yet, we still have a voice and as individuals, and small and large groups; we can still claim self and collective agency in various ways. And yes, I am very aware that it is not possible to change the world. My take on this, is that we can only change things in small ways and not change the mainstream structures out there, dominated by those who have no interest in everyday people's lives and their well-being. Many do not pay attention as you say "as far as art goes", but, actually I would not agree with this. Also, it does not matter really how many pay attention - what's really important is that there are enough out there to share in yours and mine and others' experience, whether it be through dialogue, mutual respect or just looking and considering things. I think it's more complex and situational. As I seem to remember one of the Karen Blissett's saying on here once "I see you and you see me", and that's a start :-) wishing you well. marc > Hi Marc, > > I agree with the last paragraph of course! On a larger scale, and this is > where despair hits full, here we are in the usa watching the country fall > apart - we're 30th for example in infant mortality, first in health care > costs but way down in quality of life, life-span, etc., 25-30th in terms > of math/science education, filled with hatred of immigrants, Muslims, > Islam, Jews, Blacks, Gays - and all this stuff is growing. And no amount > of protest has changed this - if anything, the republicans, who are most > likely going to win the house of representatives back, have vowed to > repeal the health care bill - which itself offers almost nothing. We're > heading back to the 1930s with a vengeance, only this time we're trillions > of dollars in debt. Things are getting worse and we watch this and no > matter how many marches and petitions, they continue to get worse. It's > like watching the end of Weimar (or something! - I wasn't around) - as far > as art goes, no one pays much attention, there's hardly any funding left, > and soon we'll be reciting the ten commandments just to walk down the > street... > > end of rant - I know is is off-topic, but among the artists I know, this > is _always_ the topic, always without solution... > > - Alan > > > On Sat, 16 Oct 2010, marc garrett wrote: > >> Hi Alan, >> >>> but I might be wrong here of course! >> Same here, I am definitely open for this to be the case regarding my own >> thoughts, which is of course very possible ;-) >> >> I understand and appreciate your dislike for manifestos in whatever >> form. I have the same distrust of the idea of manifestos for various >> reasons, and in the early days when furtherfield was considering a >> 'mission' statement about its function and purposes - we were not >> comfortable with that - mainly because we found it hard to accept the >> notion that a group that changes each day, networked to other >> communities, individuals groups and platforms can possess such an >> assumption if we were really gong reflect the shifting nature of what it >> was we were part of. So, in the end we chose to call it a 'behaviour >> statement', it seemed more grounded. >> >> As these questions appear, my mind is focusing on trying to create a >> circumstance for change in the most productive and usable way. There's >> still room for other terms to replace a 'manyfesto' for example; perhaps >> with something similar to a behaviour statement, or the same term - not >> sure. I know when the time comes it needs to thought about collectively, >> no matter how small or large the group will be, if it ever happens in >> the future. >> >> The other thing is, it may not even be a movement with a hub or central >> base or site - it could be a shared set of ideas and works which reflect >> specific needs or an argument (or set of arguments) to initiate a move >> to further these issues or ethical things, into a larger cultural context. >> >> wishing you well. >> >> marc >> >> >>> Personally I'm absolutely against manifestos of any sort; I wrote >>> something for Talan Memmott a while ago about it, a manifestor or >>> anti-manifesto against manifestos. >>> >>> The teachers I mentioned, who were really good, were good because they >>> just worked with the students, not at them, but there was nothing >> formal, >>> nothing to formalize. And it really depended as well on personality; >> some >>> teachers just aren't interested in working this way and that's ok too. >>> There was a teacher at UCLA I hated - he taught formal drawing in a >> formal >>> way - and the students loved him, because he provided structure. >>> >>> There's no answers I think, just continuing discussion. >>> >>> - Alan, but I might be wrong here of course! >>> >>> On Sat, 16 Oct 2010, marc garrett wrote: >>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> I have been reading, catching up on the discussions about 'authenticity >>>> of art in a neoliberalist world'. >>>> >>>> One thing that kept coming back to me when reading all of the great >>>> concepts, cross-thinking and shared explorations around the subject, was >>>> - how the hell does this all translate into an everyday practice? >>>> >>>> It seems to me that as an overall, blanket of rules or ethical >>>> implementation on arts culture as whole it really would not work; >>>> because people need their own space to experiment and discover their own >>>> creative noise or voices. To suggest everyone becomes the same or reads >>>> from the same song sheet, would be a mono-cultural and self-defeating >>>> experience; very likely stunting individual agency on art-making and its >>>> local, contextual terms. >>>> >>>> So, there needs to be a contemporary body of people or movement engaged >>>> in dealing with these actual questions, specifically. >>>> >>>> A group who is willing to organize a shared (agreed) 'manyfesto' for a >>>> collective practice; for producing alternative art contexts challenging >>>> through its practice the destructive nature of neoliberalism and its >>>> ideals, and influences on our cultures world wide. So far, there have >>>> been small groups and individuals who have done this, but as an art >>>> movement specifically re-evaluating and challenging art culture and the >>>> neoliberalist agenda as its main focus; through ethical reasonings in >>>> order to redefine the mannerisms of art behaviour, with guidelines for >>>> others to discuss, debate, use themselves, as a shared create commons, >>>> is another thing. >>>> >>>> The reason I propose 'manyfesto', instead of manifesto is because, we >>>> need to be 'consciously' aware in our shared decisions in challenging >>>> some of the older more singular modernist (even post-modernist) >>>> languages bit by bit. If we take the 'i' out of manifesto, it feels >>>> actually less 'masculine' originally (from Italian, from manifestare to >>>> manifest). "...maybe we should jointly define the goals ... write some >>>> sort of many-festo as marc garrett would call it" collaboratively user >>>> designed, Armin Medosch. http://www.thenextlayer.org/node/18#comment-7 >>>> >>>> Obviously goals would be agreed by consensus, but a manyfesto would be >>>> worked out in order to bring into fruition a focus and direction (even >>>> rules, yes rules) making it easier for individuals and groups to define >>>> their own situations, circumstances and differences, actively >>>> incorporating process as 'critiques' as 'real' palette, material or >>>> 'thoughtful manure' and nourishment in making such works. Such works >>>> need not be technologically informed or based, but more exist in >>>> recognition or through acknowledgement of the guidelines proposed, >>>> shared via the movements own deliberation. >>>> >>>> The movement would of course need its own doubters, critical thinkers, >>>> theorists to act as the consciousness of the collective/movement, but at >>>> the same time there needs to be a consensus and agreement that the work >>>> introduced into the world is from an activist position, and getting it >>>> out there is important and urgent, for all concerned. >>>> >>>> Even though I am equally enthralled in theorizing about various ideas, >>>> much of this excellent, independent, intelligent and >>>> inventive/imaginative discourse can work towards informing a pro-active >>>> art practice. >>>> >>>> Wishing all well. >>>> >>>> marc >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> Think we're pretty much in agreement here! >>>>> >>>>> Thanks for the discussion, Alan >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, 14 Oct 2010, Curt Cloninger wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>> The best art teaching I've seen (and hopefully articipated in) >> was Lutz >>>>>>> Presser's in Tasmania, and David Askevold's at Nova Scotia; in both >>>> cases, >>>>>>> they/we assumed the students were already artists/agents, and >>>> treated them >>>>>>> as such. So making art became a cooperative effort - sharing >> techniques >>>>>>> when needed, but not imposing anything. And believe it or not, >> everyone >>>>>>> rose to the occasion. It's as if nothing was taught at all but >>>> everything >>>>>>> was learned. It was astonishing. >>>>>> This sits well with me as a pedagogical practice. It makes me think >>>>>> of Ranciere's "Ignorant Schoolmaster." If I am the teacher/explicator >>>>>> with the correct answer, then in order to liberate my students with >>>>>> my wisdom and knowledge, I first have to convince them that they >>>>>> aren't yet liberated. This is a form of oppression masquarading as >>>>>> emancipation. As the situationists say, "Don't liberate me. I'll take >>>>>> care of that." >>>>>> >>>>>> I, as the teacher, don't arbitrate/decide "what matters." But the >>>>>> student still must decide this for herself. That is her own pragmatic >>>>>> question as a practicing artist. Because she has been thrown into the >>>>>> world with a body that can act on things and with a limited amount of >>>>>> time to live. She is the steward of this body and time. So the art >>>>>> work she makes must at least matter to her; otherwise she would spend >>>>>> her time, money, and bodily energy on some other activity she deemed >>>>>> more worthy. >>>>>> >>>>>> What kind of pedagogy best comes alongside my student and helps her >>>>>> discover what matters to her? That becomes my own "pragmatic" >>>>>> question as a practicing teacher. >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> NetBehaviour mailing list >>>>>> NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org >>>>>> http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> == >>>>> email archive: http://sondheim.rupamsunyata.org/ >>>>> webpage http://www.alansondheim.org >>>>> music archive: http://www.espdisk.com/alansondheim/ >>>>> == >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> NetBehaviour mailing list >>>>> NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org >>>>> http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> NetBehaviour mailing list >>>> NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org >>>> http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour >>>> >>>> >>> >>> == >>> email archive: http://sondheim.rupamsunyata.org/ >>> webpage http://www.alansondheim.org >>> music archive: http://www.espdisk.com/alansondheim/ >>> == >>> _______________________________________________ >>> NetBehaviour mailing list >>> NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org >>> http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> NetBehaviour mailing list >> NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org >> http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour >> >> > > > == > email archive: http://sondheim.rupamsunyata.org/ > webpage http://www.alansondheim.org > music archive: http://www.espdisk.com/alansondheim/ > == > _______________________________________________ > NetBehaviour mailing list > NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org > http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour > _______________________________________________ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
