On Wed, 2003-02-12 at 16:15, Greg Meyer wrote:
> I just recall many discussions on a.o.l.m back during beta testing of 9.0
> discussing this very thing, with some people liking it and some people hating
> it. I also recall the Cooker discussion during the development process that
> spelled out quite clearly why this was a positive change. A lot of naysayers
> were convinced during that discussion, which is why it changed.
Well, I've done searches within the newbie and expert lists for
"rpmdrake" and I see almost no vocality on a positive note for rpmdrake
2.1. This isn't from memory, this is from a hard search for "rpmdrake"
thru all emails I have. My lists here date back to 1999. I saw no
naysayers convinced in the discussions on the expert list, may they come
here on this thread and correct me if I am wrong. And if they still
don't like rpmdrake 2.1, I'd appreciate hearing about that as well.
>
> > "Re: [expert] rpmdrake 9.0, a step backwards :(". This thread contains
> > the major commentary on this subject that I've been able to find. In
> > addition to that there is also no support for your "favorable reaction"
> > theory when you look at the votes on the RPM Voting pages for
> > rpmdrake-1.4-18mdk. It's gone all the way to page 2 out of 10 and as of
> > right now is up to 47 votes. After today it will be 49 cause I will be
> > casting my two cents in the wishing well.
> >
> > Among the dissenters on the thread above in the Expert list were Dale
> > Huckeby, Toshiro, David Guntner, Franki and Piero Piutti. James
> > Sparenburg made the following excellent point:
> >
> > "Ok now the discussion has gone on to the point of creating two equally
> > problomatic camps. My question is there a middle gournd. Can the UI of
> > old be merged with the codebase of new. The answer is yes."
> >
> > Of the ones that were *for* the new rpmdrake, there was Todd Lyons
> > alone; and I was unable to discern anybody else in the thread that made
> > it clear that they were liking rpmdrake 2.1. Bottom line is that I find
> > no basis in reality for your statement concerning a "favorable
> > reaction."
>
> The people that don't like a change are always the most vocal about why they
> don't like something, which is why when you go back and look, the evidence
> will always point to the dissenters outweighing the people that like it.
Perhaps or perhaps not; I think it varies with the situation. Be that
as it may, the point was "favorable reaction", and not " the statistical
weight of dissenters". On the point in question I maintain that there
are historically almost no peeps pushing rpmdrake 2.1 according to the
list mail. Except maybe the developers.
>
> Take the recent discussion about the new mdkkdm as a case in point. I
> personally hate it and think it should go away yesterday. You, however, may
> like it and think it is the best change Mandrake ever made.
I happen to agree with you here. I also think that this UI should have
been put to a vote before it was changed; it would have saved much
debate and the end product would have been better.
> >
> > > I think it is here to stay.
> >
> > And I think it depends on the votes. And it should. THAT should be the
> > determining factor, and not some arbitrary tyrannical decision handed
> > down from an ivory tower.
> >
>
> I don't think a development decision made by the company that pays for the
> development a tyrannical one, and this was definitely not arbitrary.
1) The customers pay the company that pays for the development.
2) Wether the decision was arbitrary or not depends largely on the
average joe's leverage in the decision, which I maintain was not alot.
> I also
> think Club voting was put into place in order to determine if fluxbox or
> blackbox goes on cd1 or 2, not determine the development direction of the
> Mandrake Tools.
What it was put in place for originally has absolutely no relation to
what it has evolved to and is being used for now. Be that as it may,
basically you are saying that the Mandrake users should not determine
the direction of the Mandrake tools UI.
> No matter how many people vote to put nVidia drivers in the
> distro, they won't go in.
That debate concerns licensing issues and has nothing to do with
rpmdrake, which btw is a Mandrakesoft creation and is already included
in the distro, where the Nvidia drivers are *not*.
LX
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