One step ahead, I received a new aftermarket R/R to replace the old one but
both passed voltage measures and diode tests outside.
No surprise it didn't make a difference and the load capacity still doesn't
reach 13V @5000 after checking these things:
- battery fine and fully charged giving 12.8V and 12.3 with ignition and
head light on
- black/white DC from RR into stator magnet coil is about 11.6V which is
standby voltage minus transistor loss with 5 ohm resistance
- no remarkable drop between green RR to black battery or red/white RR to
red starter relay
- stator resistance between each yellow is less than 1 ohm and the diode
test also passed in both directions while they are not grounded anywhere
- RR diode pass also fine in one direction for yellow/green and
redwhite/yellow pairs so it really rectifies AC to DC as expected
- wires and connectors are clean with minimum resistance, black ground from
battery and the green at the ignition coils are clean on frame
- head light gets noticeable brighter with factor x1.5 between idle and
@2500
I have no reliable spec for the expected AC output from the stator to the
rectifier/regulator and found any value from 10 to 60V on the web which
doesn't help.
Each yellow pair gives about 8-10V on idle but no more than 13V equally
when revving to 4000 which might indicate a tired stator.
But I'm somehow running out of ideas and obviously I wasn't the only one
over the last 30 years. DOH!
Frank Hawkwarts schrieb am Freitag, 17. Juni 2022 um 20:29:30 UTC+2:
> Kyle, thanks for confirming the idle caveat again which at least complies
> with the Clymer.
> It just makes me wonder whether the Nighthawk was far ahead that time with
> CDI, hydraulic valves and final drive for highway trips only while it sucks
> the battery in city traffic.
> However, it all doesn't explain yet why the load voltage won't get above
> 12.8V even on 5000 rpm even if all resistance, diode, voltage loss
> measurements are within specs when following professional tips from several
> sources.
> I replicated the results with a fresh battery and different multimeter
> devices and there is no visible damages to any leads or coils either.
> On the other hand, the battery acid level decreases slowly and I have to
> re-fill some destilled water after 8-12 weeks.
> Maybe the regulator goes mad depending on the runtime temperature
> coincidently so I will try an aftermarket rectifier/regulator as first
> playoff criteria.
>
> kyl...@gmail.com schrieb am Freitag, 17. Juni 2022 um 18:33:16 UTC+2:
>
>> One thing I learned back when I had my 650 was that Mr Clymer will
>> absolutely lie to you and won't feel bad about it. I can't say if he's
>> right or not about the charging system, it's been too many years, I think
>> the biggest lie I found was with wiring diagram had some wire colors mixed
>> up.
>>
>> That said, yes the 83-85 650 does not charge below 2500 RPM. There are
>> tons and tons of threads in the archives here regarding the charging
>> systems, several disagreements, lots of high level discussions about the
>> comings and doings of electrons and amps and ohms, but the one thing agreed
>> on is it doesn't charge at idle.
>>
>> -Kyle
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 17, 2022 at 8:48 AM Frank Hawkwarts <frank.h...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Hawkies,
>>>
>>> proudly owning an US 83‘ Nighthawk 650 for many years now, I much
>>> appreciate Paul's valuable site leading me to this group.
>>> Currently I‘m also fighting the famous charging issues and struggle with
>>> a misleading information in the Clymer CB550 & 650 Nighthawk 1983-1985
>>> chapters 4 and 7 about the permanent magnetic rotor which states the
>>> following.
>>>
>>> Chapter 4 Engine - page 101:
>>> "Rotor Testing - the rotors are permanently magnetized and cannot be
>>> tested except by replacement with rotors known to be good. Rotors can lose
>>> magnetism from old age or a sharp blow. If defektive, the rotors must be
>>> replaced; they cannot be remagnetized. The inner and outer rotors are
>>> available only as a set."
>>>
>>> Chapter 7 Electrical System - page 186 (older Clymer print only, not
>>> found in my print):
>>> "Rotor Testing - The alternator has 2 rotors that are permanently
>>> magnetized and cannot be tested except by replacement with a rotor known to
>>> be good. A rotor can lose magnetism from old age or a sharp blow. If
>>> defektive, the rotors must be replaced; they cannot be remagnetized."
>>>
>>> But in fact, the US CB 650 SC Nighthawk (aka CBX 650 E in Europe) has a
>>> brushless excited field alternator which receives 12V DC input from the
>>> Voltage regulator through the black and white leads into a separate field
>>> coil to return adjusted AC through its 3 yellow leads on demand.
>>> Unlike a permantent magnet giving full capacity all time, it prevents
>>> the RR from smashing all the overhead by cooling the transformed heat.
>>>
>>> So it looks like the Clymer information was false copied from the
>>> preceding 82 CB650SC or similar model. There used to be a link to ‚Revised
>>> '83-85 Clymer Chapter 7 for '83-'85 CB650SC Charging System‘ which is
>>> broken and obsolete. Is there any other source to confirm my assumption?
>>>
>>> Another controversy discussion is often seen to when and what the
>>> charging starts ("it doesn't charge below 2500 vs. it they all charge at
>>> IDLE already").
>>> Well, the Table 1 at the end of chapter 7 states an negative amperage
>>> output up to 1500 rpm, approximately 0 amp at 2000-2100 rpm (83) resp.
>>> 1700-1800 rpm (84-on) and +2 amperage output beginning at 2500 rpm.
>>> This seems to match my experience when wasting a lot of time on traffic
>>> jams and lights before surprising me with an empty sucked battery on next
>>> engine start in the mid of nowhere *slurp*.
>>>
>>> Any comments to confirm or deny my throughts and assumptions are welcome
>>> :-)
>>>
>>> Thank you and take care,
>>> Frank
>>>
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>>
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