I'm not actually annoyed at the lack of patches (I can obviously write code myself, after all, I wrote all this). I get that. A DAW is a very complex and nuanced thing plus nobody wants to dig their head out of the QT/GTK sand long enough to learn the first thing about FLTK/NTK. Unfortunate but true. I only mention it to show the contrast between the number of requests and demands I receive vs the number of contributions. It is as if people, yourself included, have some very alien concept that I can't even fathom regarding what it means to be helpful or to participate in something. Demands, accusations, comparisons to other products, etc. are profoundly unhelpful. Threats of forks and patches withheld are likewise unhelpful. Not only unhelpful, they are hurtful. But of course, I'm supposed to cherrily accept all manner of abuse from all quarters, so you feel obliged to pile on. You didn't need to chime in. You could have offered a patch instead of an admonishment.
By creating a fork rather than contributing back to the project/person that helped you, you are engaging in "spiteware" or "jealousyware", following in the disgraceful footsteps of Filipe Coelho. If you can behave like a mature adult and allow your ideas and patches (if there be any) to be judged on technical terms without getting personally offended, and leave your personal biases against me (which you probably got second hand from Filipe et al) out of it, then there is indeed a possibility that you could be a welcome and helpful contributor. The choice between honor and disgrace is, as always, completely up to you. Perhaps you haven't noticed, but I could certainly use more people on my side here, there are only, what, 7 of you openly against me? Perhaps you prefer to formally join Filipe's gang of bullies and intensify the combined ire aimed my way. I can only guess at what lurks in your heart. But I would strongly recommend that you consider how much your actions here are based on first hand, direct experience (you admit that you've never even tried to submit a patch, after all), and how much they are based on false narratives and biases with which you have been inculcated. Do I really sound like an irrational, ranting person to you? Or is that just something you believe because of some rumor and find a secret thrill in perpetuating? Frankly, I don't care if you make a fork (again, I've been doing just fine all these years writing my own code and sincerely doubt [no offense, just a statistical judgement] you'll come up with any feature I can't live without). But doing so would be harmful to the project, its users, and to your own reputation. And on top of that it's pretty pointless if it's just for a few bugfixes. Anyway, you do you man. Your point is taken. But I already removed my own doubt that it was possible to please everyone (or anyone!) a long, long time ago. Leave the popularity contest to people like Filipe who attend LAC and live for applause. My ethics don't permit me to tell someone something is good or true when it isn't, and that can be misinterpreted online as callousness, haughtiness, meanness, or whatever. But my statements don't come from ill-will. It is out of compassion (which always involves compromise---I have to be compassionate to myself and the other users as well) that I offer corrections and set boundaries. If you ever actually tried to work with me on a project, you'd figure out pretty quickly that I'm only interested in doing the right thing, making the code better, etc. I'm no stranger to being a contributor myself, you know, and as far as maintainers go, I think I'm pretty easy-going except with regards to limits on bloat/scope (which I consider to be the whole point of this project and have no intention of relaxing these constraints). If he were of a mind to be honest, and you asked Filipe Ceolho and his crew if I was ever "rude" or "difficult to work with" before a certain point, they would have to say "no." What changed at that point in time was not me, or my policy of human-to-human interaction. What changed was Filipe's focus of effort and methods of communication with me (he decided that he was dictator of Linux Audio and that I should work for him for free and adopted a very similar accusatory tone to the one you've used). And like looking into a mirror, he saw what was reflected there (and didn't like it) and ran around telling everyone what a horrible person he saw in that mirror. Alas, he may have seen something horrible, but it wasn't me that he was looking at, it was his own reflection. If he had come to me with patches, or even come to me asking to take over maintainership of NSM, he would have, (obviously!) seen something else. Knowing all of this, if you still want to follow Filipe's pathetic example, well I can't stop you from wasting your time and publicly debasing yourself. If you do come around and decide to submit any PRs (that rescaling thing in NSM you mentioned is actually one that has been on my personal TODO list for a while, so I'd definitely appreciate it), be sure to post about it here or send me an email directly, because I don't get GitHub notifications. I will say that I would prefer not to work with anyone who is also working on the impostor project. Filipe spoiled that opportunity by making false statements about forthcoming patches and reconciliation in an attempt to get his name in the commit log for political leverage. I now how zero faith in the word of Filipe and anyone belonging to his crew. And if you or anyone else wants to come and revamp the GUI and GUI API for NSM (the job for which Filipe and his agent Nils proved to be incompetent for), then you're welcome to come on over and give it a shot---if you stay within the bounds of sanity and reason and evince the capacity to think ideas through to their conclusions, then I'm sure myself and the other users will thank you. Plus, you'd get to have your name in a place of honor, as contributor, rather than a place of dishonor, as purveyor of "spiteware." On Thu, Jan 28, 2021 at 11:50 AM Philipp Mueller <[email protected]> wrote: > > No, I don't think you should be more like X or Y. And I don't want to lecture > you either. I think you are just fine and of course you can post whatever you > want. I just wanted to point out that there is at least one person not > contributing because of the way communication is done is this project. Not to > blame you but to suggest that there might be a low hanging fruit to improve > the patch frequency you were annoyed about. > > And, no, I'm subscribed long enough to not be surprised you are putting a lot > of effort in "resistance" and trying to "win" this argument. Therefore I > might really be blamed to waste both our time and those of other people on > this list. I will end this now, unsubscribe (list reply won't cut it in case > you want me to know your response), and maintain my own fork. > > Stay healthy and keep up the good work. All the best, > > Phil > > On 28.01.21 16:00, J. Liles wrote: > > So you submitted a patch to the "fork", but you didn't submit it to the real > project. Interesting. I suppose you have some justification for that? > > Regarding your recommendation that I should become obsequious. I'm sure > you're thinking of some expression like "you catch more flies with honey than > vinegar." I should point out to you how you yourself came on with a critical, > negative approach and yet were apparently surprised to meet resistance. It's > my ML, I can post whatever I want (any idiot could see that). But anyway, > enough about you. Consider the possibility that I'm simply not interested in > catching flies. So I employ neither honey nor vinegar. Think of it like > talking to a mirror. You'd be surprised how nice I am if you could just look > beyond your prejudice. > > On Thu, Jan 28, 2021, 6:45 AM Philipp Mueller <[email protected]> > wrote: >> >> On 28.01.21 02:32, J. Liles wrote: >> > Believe me, I know well that it isn't possible to be both right and >> > likeable. It's simply a matter of perception. We instinctively dislike >> > that which appears to oppose the views to which we become attached. >> IME all that is required are some nice and empathic words. I also >> decline out-of-scope feature requests or ask people to rewrite their PRs >> to fit a particular coding style but I can't remember a single harsh >> word that resulted from that. But yes, it's quite demanding and >> sometimes feels like a waste of time to deal with all the >> issues/PRs/discussions and stuff. >> > >> > I checked the git history and didn't see your name anywhere, so I >> > think we all have nothing to lose from your parting. >> As I said, I abstained from it. I fixed a rescaling bug in the GUI of >> the session manager in the fork. Nothing critical since this only >> affects tiling window managers. >> > >> > Get off of twitter, man, and get your head straight. This isn't some >> > insurance company representative who has to be nice to you no matter >> > what you say. This is the guy who spent decades of his life making you >> > gifts and giving them to you for free. And instead of gratitude, >> > instead of silent neutrality even, you repay his kindness by piling >> > onto him when you see him being abused. What a gentleman you must >> > think you are, what a shining example of how to behave agreeably. >> > >> I have a lot of gratitude to you. And I do understand you point (in >> fact, I hold you in high regard for keeping it simple and to not >> accepting the LV2 PR). I just wanted to point out your community might >> be more diverse than you think and some might be put off by the way >> communication is practiced here. I mean, common on, I asked you to >> please not send personal attacks on public mailing list. As a response >> you called me a coward, uncivilized, and suggest I'm just here for >> trolling you. Please be/stay positive and don't let being the victim >> become a way of life. >> >>
