Indeed. Certs and degrees are used by people who aren't technical and don't know what to ask let alone evaluate.
I have seen talent from prestigious schools and I have seen lunkheads from prestigious schools. The universities were setting rather high expectations however. A friend used to handle the college new hires and he said he had to talk a few off the ledge because they weren't VPs inside of 6 months. Thanks, Mathew -----Original Message----- From: Ben Scott [mailto:mailvor...@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2012 11:31 AM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: Re: OT - ugh! In my personal experience, I haven't seen any correlation between any degree/certification and actual aptitude/knowledge/value. They're certainly not less likely, but don't appear to be significantly more, either. I have, however, seen correlation between degree/certification and hiring/pay. I suspect this is mainly because it's easier to quantify. "Does he have a degree?" is an easier question to answer than "How good is he?" On Thu, Feb 2, 2012 at 12:55 PM, Jeff Brown <jbr...@webcoindustries.com> wrote: > Those are some seriously sour grapes you are sucking on. I had a boss > who said it this way, "the degree proves he/she can finish something". > There are no guarantees that anyone is a good or outstanding employee, > at least there are SEVERAL examples shared here to point out that > degrees or certs don't guarantee competence. Anyone who's done IT for > more than a few years can provide additional examples, probably good > AND bad. (with or without degrees or certs). > > > > Your posts suggest that you think a degreed person is LESS likely to > have competence.. sorry, that just sounds like sour grapes to me. > > > > From: Jonathan Link [mailto:jonathan.l...@gmail.com] > Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2012 9:49 AM > > To: NT System Admin Issues > Subject: Re: OT - ugh! > > > > That isn't my observation. > > On Thursday, February 2, 2012, Maglinger, Paul <pmaglin...@scvl.com> wrote: >> A college degree (usually) indicates that someone has obtained >> certain literary, communication, and fact-finding skills that are >> useful in the workplace. >> >> >> >> From: Jonathan Link [mailto:jonathan.l...@gmail.com] >> Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2012 9:02 AM > >> To: NT System Admin Issues >> Subject: Re: OT - ugh! >> >> >> >> Going to college opens doors. And it almost doesn't even matter what >> the degree is in. I think it's like a secret handshake. It says "I >> can navigate a byzantine bureaucracy and complete a series of tasks >> without close supervision." >> >> >> >> I might be wrong, but I think it's always there in the subconscious. >> I had doors open for me that were previously shut by completing a >> degree (my degree is not in IT, but in accountancy). >> >> On Thu, Feb 2, 2012 at 9:29 AM, David Lum <david....@nwea.org> wrote: >> >> "This position requires a degree. Sorry. Click." >> >> Wow. I can see the college degree being a tiebreaker, but I can only >> guess the person making that statement doesn't fully understand the tech >> industry? >> Or, maybe not having gone to college myself I don't understand that >> thinking. >> >> It could have also been their way of backing out, instead of saying >> "we changed our minds on our needs" or "we hired from inside". I've >> heard of that kind of thing before - where what the person not >> getting hired wasn't told what was really happening. >> >> Dave >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Webster [mailto:webs...@carlwebster.com] >> >> Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2012 5:16 PM >> To: NT System Admin Issues >> >> Subject: RE: OT - ugh! >> >> Last year I was in the final interview for a Citrix Architect >> position for a very large company in Nashville. IIRC, it was like >> interview #6 or 7 in the process. I had been talking with the >> executive for over 45 minutes when "all of a sudden" he says "Oh, I'm >> sorry I didn't realize you had no college degree. This position requires a >> degree. Sorry. Click." >> >> I then took MBS' advice and went solo. I say screw FTE! :) >> >> >> Carl Webster >> Consultant and Citrix Technology Professional >> http://www.CarlWebster.com >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: MMF [mailto:mmfree...@ameritech.net] >> >>> Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2012 6:43 PM >>> To: NT System Admin Issues >> >>> Subject: Re: OT - ugh! >>> >>> Assuming they're being honest, it tells me that they are not very >>> strong in background checking. How could they have missed the fact >>> that you've been with one company for more than 10 years. I've NEVER >>> ever heard of a company offering a job and then withdrawing the >>> offer, period, much less before total background check. I believe >>> that I can fully understand the idea of wanting IT staff that has a >>> varied background which would include more than one job over a >>> decade. I think you are fortunate that you didn't take the job >>> because it sounds to me that the organization isn't of the highest >>> quality, if you catch my drift. Sometimes things happen for the best >>> in spite of your best efforts. They didn't vet you, but how well did >>> you vet them! It's also obvious that they don't recognize talent when they >>> see it! >>> >>> Murray >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: James Hill >> >>> Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2012 6:09 PM >>> To: NT System Admin Issues >> >>> Subject: RE: OT - ugh! >>> >>> I feel for you. >>> >>> But try and look at this way. If they can't see the value you can >>> offer now then it would only be a continual uphill fight if you were >>> employed by them. >>> >>> You are better off with an employer that shares your values. >>> >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Jacob Kisner [mailto:jbdkis...@gmail.com] >> >>> Sent: Thursday, 2 February 2012 9:52 AM >> >>> To: NT System Admin Issues >> >>> Subject: Re: OT - ugh! >>> >>> "Because we feel you are not diversified enough to address our issues." >>> >>> Same issues I have addressed over the years poor issue management, >>> no project management, no documentation, crashing servers, IT staff >>> treating the network like a high school lab.. etc. Not only can I >>> stop the bleeding and stabilize the patient (gave then how I would >>> do it), I can implement a more proactive approach to IT management >>> and stop the fires (also gave >>> details.) >>> >>> I guess they rather have the fires... >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Feb 1, 2012 at 3:27 PM, Don Kuhlman <drkuhl...@yahoo.com> >>> wrote: >>> > That makes no sense - why do they care where yo >> >> >> >> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ >> <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/> ~ >> >> --- >> To manage subscriptions click here: >> http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/ >> or send an email to listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com >> with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin >> >> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ >> <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/> ~ >> >> --- >> To manage subscriptions click here: >> http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/ >> or send an email to listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com >> with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin > > ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ > <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/> ~ > > --- > To manage subscriptions click here: > http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/ > or send an email to listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com > with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin > > > This email and any attachments transmitted with it are confidential > and intended solely for the use of the addressee. 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Any > engineering information provided is purely incidental to the tube > manufacturing process and not offered or intended to be engineering > services related to the performance specifications a customer may > require, which is the customer's responsibility to determine. > > ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ > <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/> ~ > > --- > To manage subscriptions click here: > http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/ > or send an email to listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com > with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/> ~ --- To manage subscriptions click here: http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/ or send an email to listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/> ~ --- To manage subscriptions click here: http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/ or send an email to listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin
