I agree completely with Mr. Voisine. I don't know anyone who has participated in one of these shooting contests, but where I live lots of people hunt, and while they generally eat the venison or duck or turkey they kill, they can perfectly well afford to go to the supermarket for their meat, they don't need to hunt to eat. It's a sport, and they definitely prefer getting a 10 or 12 point buck to a 4 point one for the bragging rights. But this doesn't make them ignorant, crass, or otherwise violent people - they love the outdoors and they pay attention to the birds and animals around them, they just enjoy hunting and I don't think anyone should feel morally superior to them unless they are a vegetarian. Moreover, I would match their knowledge of NYS wildlife with that of most people on this list. They don't know the Latin names, but they can point out the Scarlet Tanager nest and notice when the cuckoos are back since they are out hunting turkeys then. And please note they are not even necessarily members of the NRA or against banning assault rifles.
I know this email has gone very far afield from bird talk, but if people understand hunters better, then this lobbying will be more likely to succeed. Many, probably most, hunters would not lift a finger in support this crow shoot - they probably won't be willing to speak out against it, but neither would they actively support it /- unless/ the discussion surrounding the lobbying makes them feel like hunting and hunters more generally are being disrespected. So it would be helpful to understand that most hunters are in fact people you would enjoy meeting and talking with - and definitely taking a walk in the woods with - and your only dispute is with the few people who want to have these competitive body count events. You shouldn't think of those people as hunters any more than you would think of the extremely competitive people who think nothing of crossing onto private property to twitch a rare bird as birders: technically you would be right in each case, but that label would be pretty misleading. Alicia On 3/21/2014 11:38 AM, Voisine, Matthew NAN02 wrote: > I think this subject is getting out of control but my experience is hunters > know EXACTLY what the species is that they are hunting. The conversation is > beginning to criticize hunters unduly. > > Whether they know about something that they are not hunting is another story > and not really relevant > > Matthew Voisine > Biologist > USACE- NY District > 26 Federal Plaza > Room 2151 > NY, NY 10278 > 917.790.8718 voice > 702.271.0496 mobile > 212.264.0961 fax > matthew.vois...@usace.army.mil > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Glenn Wilson [mailto:wil...@stny.rr.com] > Sent: Friday, 21 March, 2014 11:32 > To:<redk...@optonline.net> > Cc: Larry Federman; Voisine, Matthew NAN02; Will Raup; Stella Miller; > NYSBIRDS-L > Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] RE: [nysbirds-l] Press release (UNCLASSIFIED) > > I'm curious how many hunters actually know the difference between a crow > (fish of American) and starling, red-winged BB, Rusty BB, and Grackles. I'd > be surprised if even 25% of the hunters even try yo differentiate these > "black" birds. > > > Glenn Wilson > Endicott, NY > www.WilsonsWarbler.com > > On Mar 21, 2014, at 11:09 AM,<redk...@optonline.net> wrote: > > > Hi everyone: > > While the state legislation proposed to stop these kind of shooting events is > important, laudable and should be strongly supported by the NY conservation > community, it if was to be signed into law by Governor Cuomoto tomorrow, > individual hunters could still go out each and every day for seven months > (Sept 1-March 31 as the chart detaling the NYSDEC regs. provided by Lynne > Hertzog illustrates) and shoot as many crows as they desire. > > Thus, if we want to provide crows with complete protection we need to have > state legislation introduced to have American and Fish Crows classified as > songbirds and to close the hunting season for them or some other alternate > approach...... > > John Turner > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Larry Federman > Date: Friday, March 21, 2014 9:49 am > Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] RE: [nysbirds-l] Press release (UNCLASSIFIED) > To: "Voisine, Matthew NAN02" , Will Raup , Stella Miller , NYSBIRDS-L > Cc: "Voisine, Matthew NAN02" > >> Thanks, Matthew, >> It's moot at this point since the Press Release was changed, but >> the shoot >> is just outside the NYC watershed. >> >> Larry Federman >> President, Northern Catskills Audubon >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Voisine, Matthew NAN02 >> Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2014 2:18 PM >> To: Will Raup ; Stella Miller ; NYSBIRDS-L >> Cc: Voisine, Matthew NAN02 >> Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] RE: [nysbirds-l] Press release (UNCLASSIFIED) >> >> Classification: UNCLASSIFIED >> Caveats: NONE >> >> I picked up on that also but wasn't going to say anything. >> However it is a >> huge "typo". >> >> However, if the hunt is happening on lands that are owned by >> NYC, i.e. the >> reservoirs? The statement is appropriate. >> >> >> Matthew Voisine >> Biologist >> USACE- NY District >> 26 Federal Plaza >> Room 2151 >> NY, NY 10278 >> 917.790.8718 voice >> 702.271.0496 mobile >> 212.264.0961 fax >> matthew.vois...@usace.army.mil >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From:bounce-113422972-8614...@list.cornell.edu >> [mailto:bounce-113422972-8614...@list.cornell.edu] On Behalf Of >> Will Raup >> Sent: Thursday, 20 March, 2014 14:11 >> To: Stella Miller; NYSBIRDS-L >> Subject: [EXTERNAL] RE: [nysbirds-l] Press release >> >> Sadly the fact the Senator used the term "New York City DEC", >> means it will >> be ignored. It should be edited immediately to say New York >> State DEC, >> otherwise this will be dismissed by upstate residents who will >> just view >> this as another "City" politician who has no idea what is going >> on north of >> New York City. >> >> The statement may seem minor, but many will stop reading after >> that >> particular sentence. And you can bet the opposition will use >> that to their >> advantage. >> >> Will Raup >> Albany, NY >> >> >> ________________________________ >> >> Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2014 07:11:02 -0700 >> From:stella.mille...@yahoo.com >> Subject: [nysbirds-l] Press release >> To:NYSBirds-L@cornell.edu >> >> >> Attached is the press release regarding the legislation. >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> >> Stella >> >> >> >> >> "Conservation is sometimes perceived as stopping everything >> cold, as holding >> whooping cranes in higher esteem than people. It is up to >> science to spread >> the understanding that the choice is not between wild places or >> people, it >> is between a rich or an impoverished existence for Man." 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