Well stated Alicia.
Phil Uruburu

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 21, 2014, at 12:44 PM, Alicia Plotkin <t...@zoom-dsl.com> wrote:
> 
> I agree completely with Mr. Voisine.  I don't know anyone who has 
> participated in one of these shooting contests, but where I live     lots of 
> people hunt, and while they generally eat the venison or duck or turkey they 
> kill, they can perfectly well afford to go to the supermarket for their meat, 
> they don't need to hunt to eat.  It's a sport, and they definitely prefer 
> getting a 10 or 12 point buck to a 4 point one for the bragging rights.  But 
> this doesn't make them ignorant, crass, or otherwise violent people - they 
> love the outdoors and they pay attention to the birds and animals around 
> them, they just enjoy hunting and I don't think anyone should feel morally 
> superior to them unless they are a vegetarian.  Moreover, I would match their 
> knowledge of NYS wildlife with that of most people on this list.  They don't 
> know the Latin names, but they can point out the Scarlet Tanager nest and 
> notice when the cuckoos are back since they are out hunting turkeys then.  
> And please note they are not even necessarily members of the NRA or against 
> banning assault rifles.  
> 
> I know this email has gone very far afield from bird talk, but if people 
> understand hunters better, then this lobbying will be more likely to succeed. 
>  Many, probably most, hunters would not lift a finger in support this crow 
> shoot  - they probably won't be willing to speak out against it, but neither 
> would they actively support it - unless the discussion surrounding the 
> lobbying makes them feel like hunting and hunters more generally are being 
> disrespected.  So it would be helpful to understand that most hunters are in 
> fact people you would enjoy meeting and talking with - and definitely taking 
> a walk in the woods with - and your only dispute is with the few people who 
> want to have these competitive body count events.  You shouldn't think of 
> those people as hunters any more than you would think of the extremely 
> competitive people who think nothing of crossing onto private property to 
> twitch a rare bird as birders: technically you would be right in each case, 
> but that label would be pretty misleading.
> 
> Alicia
> 
> 
>> On 3/21/2014 11:38 AM, Voisine, Matthew NAN02 wrote:
>> I think this subject is getting out of control but my experience is hunters 
>> know EXACTLY what the species is that they are hunting. The conversation is 
>> beginning to criticize hunters unduly.
>> 
>> Whether they know about something that they are not hunting is another story 
>> and not really relevant
>> 
>> Matthew Voisine
>> Biologist
>> USACE- NY District
>> 26 Federal Plaza
>> Room 2151
>> NY, NY 10278
>> 917.790.8718 voice
>> 702.271.0496 mobile
>> 212.264.0961 fax
>> matthew.vois...@usace.army.mil
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Glenn Wilson [mailto:wil...@stny.rr.com] 
>> Sent: Friday, 21 March, 2014 11:32
>> To: <redk...@optonline.net>
>> Cc: Larry Federman; Voisine, Matthew NAN02; Will Raup; Stella Miller; 
>> NYSBIRDS-L
>> Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] RE: [nysbirds-l] Press release (UNCLASSIFIED)
>> 
>> I'm curious how many hunters actually know the difference between a crow 
>> (fish of American) and starling, red-winged BB, Rusty BB, and Grackles. I'd 
>> be surprised if even 25% of the hunters even try yo differentiate these 
>> "black" birds. 
>> 
>> 
>> Glenn Wilson
>> Endicott, NY
>> www.WilsonsWarbler.com
>> 
>> On Mar 21, 2014, at 11:09 AM, <redk...@optonline.net> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Hi everyone:
>> 
>> While the state legislation proposed to stop these kind of shooting events 
>> is important, laudable and should be strongly supported by the NY 
>> conservation community, it if was to be signed into law by Governor Cuomoto 
>> tomorrow, individual hunters could still go out each and every day for seven 
>> months (Sept 1-March 31 as the chart detaling the NYSDEC regs. provided by 
>> Lynne Hertzog illustrates)  and shoot as many crows as they desire. 
>> 
>> Thus, if we want to provide crows with complete protection we need to have 
>> state legislation introduced to have American and Fish Crows classified as 
>> songbirds and to close the hunting season for them or some other alternate 
>> approach...... 
>> 
>> John Turner 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Larry Federman 
>> Date: Friday, March 21, 2014 9:49 am
>> Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] RE: [nysbirds-l] Press release (UNCLASSIFIED)
>> To: "Voisine, Matthew NAN02" , Will Raup , Stella Miller , NYSBIRDS-L 
>> Cc: "Voisine, Matthew NAN02" 
>> 
>>> Thanks, Matthew,
>>> It's moot at this point since the Press Release was changed, but 
>>> the shoot 
>>> is just outside the NYC watershed.
>>> 
>>> Larry Federman
>>> President, Northern Catskills Audubon
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message----- 
>>> From: Voisine, Matthew NAN02
>>> Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2014 2:18 PM
>>> To: Will Raup ; Stella Miller ; NYSBIRDS-L
>>> Cc: Voisine, Matthew NAN02
>>> Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] RE: [nysbirds-l] Press release (UNCLASSIFIED)
>>> 
>>> Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
>>> Caveats: NONE
>>> 
>>> I picked up on that also but wasn't going to say anything. 
>>> However it is a 
>>> huge "typo".
>>> 
>>> However, if the hunt is happening on lands that are owned by 
>>> NYC, i.e. the 
>>> reservoirs? The statement is appropriate.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Matthew Voisine
>>> Biologist
>>> USACE- NY District
>>> 26 Federal Plaza
>>> Room 2151
>>> NY, NY 10278
>>> 917.790.8718 voice
>>> 702.271.0496 mobile
>>> 212.264.0961 fax
>>> matthew.vois...@usace.army.mil
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: bounce-113422972-8614...@list.cornell.edu 
>>> [mailto:bounce-113422972-8614...@list.cornell.edu] On Behalf Of 
>>> Will Raup
>>> Sent: Thursday, 20 March, 2014 14:11
>>> To: Stella Miller; NYSBIRDS-L
>>> Subject: [EXTERNAL] RE: [nysbirds-l] Press release
>>> 
>>> Sadly the fact the Senator used the term "New York City DEC", 
>>> means it will 
>>> be ignored. It should be edited immediately to say New York 
>>> State DEC, 
>>> otherwise this will be dismissed by upstate residents who will 
>>> just view 
>>> this as another "City" politician who has no idea what is going 
>>> on north of 
>>> New York City.
>>> 
>>> The statement may seem minor, but many will stop reading after 
>>> that 
>>> particular sentence. And you can bet the opposition will use 
>>> that to their 
>>> advantage.
>>> 
>>> Will Raup
>>> Albany, NY
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ________________________________
>>> 
>>> Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2014 07:11:02 -0700
>>> From: stella.mille...@yahoo.com
>>> Subject: [nysbirds-l] Press release
>>> To: NYSBirds-L@cornell.edu
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Attached is the press release regarding the legislation.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Stella
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> "Conservation is sometimes perceived as stopping everything 
>>> cold, as holding 
>>> whooping cranes in higher esteem than people. It is up to 
>>> science to spread 
>>> the understanding that the choice is not between wild places or 
>>> people, it 
>>> is between a rich or an impoverished existence for Man." Thomas 
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