Thinking outloud... it almost feels like mailing lists as a tool are no
longer a good fit to the need.

Is there another tool we could consider using?

Ed

On Thu, Apr 20, 2017 at 12:29 PM, Gildas Lanilis <gildas.lanilis at huawei.com>
wrote:

> Let me share my experience with mailing list per project:
>
> Even though developers requested for specific mailing list, they hate it.
> Why:
>
> 1.       They had to register in all the mailing lists. Too cumbersome.
> So most of them did not register
>
> 2.       As they did not register in mailing list, other folks took the
> habit to add them separately in To or Cc. And then the Moderator?s misery
> started.
>
> 3.       The list of folks added separately to the mailing list grew
> quickly and hit the max allowed by Linux Foundation (10 recipients). Thus
> requiring the Moderator to review and accept the message. Impact: delay on
> the responses.
>
> 4.       As the folks were not systematically in the mailing list but
> still used it (by pressing Reply All), by policy (to avoid spam) Linux
> Foundation requested the Moderator to again review and accept the message.
> Impact: delay on the responses.
>
>
>
> I start liking the Topic. It requires a bit of discipline but it makes
> things working better for all who can enjoy the art of filtering.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Gildas
>
>
>
> *From:* onap-discuss-bounces at lists.onap.org [mailto:onap-discuss-bounces@
> lists.onap.org] *On Behalf Of *SULLIVAN, BRYAN L
> *Sent:* Thursday, April 20, 2017 11:38 AM
> *To:* Ed Warnicke; Andrew Grimberg
> *Cc:* onap-discuss
>
> *Subject:* Re: [onap-discuss] Proposal for list split of onap-discuss
>
>
>
> The flip side (just to be considered in the supporting infra) is that it?s
> not hard for projects to become disconnected when segregated.
> Needing/managing many project email list subscriptions inhibits the ability
> to easily keep an overview of how things are progressing across projects.
> Of course at some point, the firehose becomes unmanageable and the demands
> of focus require segregation.
>
>
>
> But some infra support can address the limitations of project-specific
> lists:
>
> -          Mail subscription system (e.g. http://lists.onap.org) support
> for a ?auto-subscribe to all? option for those who want it.
>
> -          Mail archive system that supports an effective search, e.g.
> the W3C system: https://www.w3.org/Search/Mail/Public/
>
> o   Mailman is woefully inadequate for this. Some services exist that
> could possibly be used for this, e.g. http://openstack.markmail.org/
> search/?q= works well for me, for OpenStack in general.
>
> o   Note that you can also just subscribe using some email service ala
> Gmail or Hotmail, that provides a search feature that works for you. That
> can completely solve your corporate inbox issue, given that you?re allowed
> to use non-corporate email services for open source work.
>
>
>
> If we want to create project-specific lists, I recommend that the LF work
> on the two supporting infra capabilities above, or include workarounds such
> as above in developer intros/FAQs.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bryan Sullivan | AT&T
>
>
>
> *From:* onap-discuss-bounces at lists.onap.org [mailto:onap-discuss-bounces@
> lists.onap.org] *On Behalf Of *Ed Warnicke
> *Sent:* Thursday, April 20, 2017 10:46 AM
> *To:* Andrew Grimberg <agrimberg at linuxfoundation.org>
> *Cc:* onap-discuss <onap-discuss at lists.onap.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [onap-discuss] Proposal for list split of onap-discuss
>
>
>
> I hit a situation just yesterday where there was literally no reasonable
> way to address a sub-community of openstack because they have
>
> a giant monster mailer, and thus there was no reasonable way to address
> the interested subcommunity.
>
>
>
> Monster mega lists suppress conversation.  Give each project their own
> space for their community to talk.
>
>
>
> Ed
>
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 20, 2017 at 10:34 AM, Andrew Grimberg <
> agrimberg at linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>
> On 04/20/2017 09:46 AM, Ed Warnicke wrote:
> > Josef,
> >
> > I couldn't agree more.  Typically 'discuss' in most communities is for
> > 'cross project' discussion.  Project specific converstions tend to
> happen on
> > ${project}-dev mailers (think dcae-dev, sdnc-dev, etc).   For this to
> > work, one needs projects.  Projects *need* their own space to hold
> > publicly visible conversations.
> >
> > I would strongly recommend *against* a single list in the long term.  It
> > becomes overwhelming, and it strongly discourages folks sending email
> > because the room is so big.
>
> Our largest communities have major cross-posting problems along with new
> people regularly informing us that they don't know where to send things
> because of having too many lists. As such, I can't express how strongly
> I recommend only breaking out a specific topic to a separate list _iff_
> it proves to cause too much traffic on the general list.
>
> As Aimee pointed out OpenStack, which is a community larger than our
> largest community, doesn't do what you're talking about. They use topics
> on their lists precisely to get around the mailing list explosion of a
> list per project that you're suggesting.
>
>
> -Andy-
>
> --
> Andrew J Grimberg
> Lead, IT Release Engineering
> The Linux Foundation
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> onap-discuss at lists.onap.org
> https://lists.onap.org/mailman/listinfo/onap-discuss
>
>
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