Robert Klein wrote: > Wow, it is really starting to sound like we need a more robust tool for > backing up, restoring, merging, and upgrading regions and parcels. The use > case I have is my standalone has a region that has been subdivided into 32 > parcels. Each parcel is an office space where the user can personalize their > own space. As people roll on and off projects I need to be able to backup a > parcel and replace it with a blank one for the next user. If the original > user comes back for another project I need to restore their office space to > either the same spot or another spot that is available. I seriously do not > want to backup and restore entire regions for each change of a tiny parcel. > Also if you rent out an event space think of how easy it would be to just > bring events up and down based on each time slot. This would give OpenSim a > really cool and useful advantage.
One thing I forgot to mention is that spending some time with megaregion + OAR issues is also on the todo long list. > > -Robert > > > Diva Canto wrote: >> Yep, that's my use case too. More and more, the apps I'm involved with >> include people building things in separate development sims, possibly >> over copies of a base model, and then having a deployment sim where >> things are merged periodically. >> >> Bob Wellman wrote: >>> I agree with Diva it would be good if on Save_oar we could specify >>> owner-id and then the saved file would only contain prims owned by that >>> user. However it needs to be part of a bigger change I think in trems of >>> loading oar being less all or nothing too. >>> >>> One of the problems with LOAD_OAR at present is the way it replaces >>> everything in a sim. It would be good if there were an option to replace >>> or add to whats in a sim already with whats on the file being loaded. >>> Maybe the replace/add options could be filtered to replace only parts of >>> the build (eg. replace Nicks prims with the new oar of Nicks prims >>> leaving Toms prims where they are). >>> >>> The use case I am thinking of is where a sim (a city) is built by the >>> sim owner (Nick) in a standalone grid and loaded via OAR files to a >>> public grid. Then in that public grid other people (Tom) adds >>> furnishings to the sim in the public grid. In the meantime the sim owner >>> (Tom) makes a mark 2 version of the sim in his standalone which he wants >>> to use to upgrade the one in the public grid. If he does load-oar he >>> loses all the work done by others (Tom) in the public grid version. What >>> he wants to do is merge his work with others. So we need someway to save >>> each contribution and merge them. >>> >>> I leave it to others wiser than me to devise a syntax for this. >>> >>> >>> > Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2009 07:51:55 -0800 >>> > From: [email protected] >>> > To: [email protected] >>> > Subject: Re: [Opensim-users] Parcel Archiver? >>> > >>> > There are several kinds of filters one could add to the general >>> > archiving facility. Parcels... why not. Another one -- more important >>> to >>> > me -- is owner id. >>> > >>> > Stefan Andersson wrote: >>> > > There is of course always the option to implement a region module >>> that can >>> > > implement some fairly more detailed use case, maybe connecting to >>> stuff like >>> > > scheduled jobs et c. >>> > > >>> > > /Stefan >>> > > >>> > >> -----Original Message----- >>> > >> From: [email protected] [mailto:opensim-users- >>> > >> [email protected]] On Behalf Of Robert Klein >>> > >> Sent: den 21 november 2009 15:24 >>> > >> To: [email protected] >>> > >> Subject: Re: [Opensim-users] Parcel Archiver? >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> I see your points and was only suggesting we have some refined way >>> of >>> > >> backing >>> > >> up regions instead of either all or nothing. Even a basic program >>> for >>> > >> backing up data on a computer allows you to backup either the whole >>> > >> disk, >>> > >> individual directories, and individual files (tar vs dd for >>> example). >>> > >> We >>> > >> have methods for backing up the whole drive and individual files >>> but >>> > >> not >>> > >> directories. It just seems unbalanced. >>> > >> >>> > >> I have seen some pretty intense builds in SL and OS on relatively >>> small >>> > >> parcels that would be a huge issue to recreate. The IAR files are >>> great >>> > >> but >>> > >> are not a reasonable method for backing up and restoring a 64 x 128 >>> > >> parcel >>> > >> with several buildings full of content including a museum and >>> > >> stage/events >>> > >> area or a nightclub. Experience tells me we are going to need this >>> if >>> > >> we >>> > >> continue to support the concept of having parcels. >>> > >> >>> > >> -Robert >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> Stefan Andersson-3 wrote: >>> > >>> One way to go about it could be to make sure the oar is subdivided >>> > >> into >>> > >>> parcels when storing it; if so, one would probably backup the >>> whole >>> > >> oar, >>> > >>> but >>> > >>> be able to restore only parts of the oar. >>> > >>> >>> > >>> >>> > >>> >>> > >>> I have only used oars for full backup, so I don't know if the >>> parcel >>> > >> info >>> > >>> is >>> > >>> already stored in it? >>> > >>> >>> > >>> >>> > >>> >>> > >>> /Stefan >>> > >>> >>> > >>> >>> > >>> >>> > >>> From: [email protected] >>> > >>> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Len >>> > >> Brown >>> > >>> Sent: den 21 november 2009 09:20 >>> > >>> To: [email protected] >>> > >>> Subject: Re: [Opensim-users] Parcel Archiver? >>> > >>> >>> > >>> >>> > >>> >>> > >>> I am tempted to say that individual parcel backups is not a good >>> > >> idea. If >>> > >>> one is building on a parcel, as opposed to a full region, then >>> simply >>> > >>> maintaining copies of their items in their inventory should be >>> > >> adequate. >>> > >>> Parcels come in so many sizes and making a backup would require >>> the >>> > >> new >>> > >>> parcel for a restore would have to be identical in dimensions. So >>> > >> this >>> > >>> can >>> > >>> be very complex if you have a parcel that, for example, lies along >>> a >>> > >> road >>> > >>> so >>> > >>> the side of your parcel is angular. Or if you have an odd-shaped >>> > >> parcel >>> > >>> or >>> > >>> a combination of parcels that are separated by other parcels you >>> do >>> > >> not >>> > >>> own. >>> > >>> >>> > >>> Backing up a region is simple enough given the standard >>> dimensions, >>> > >> even >>> > >>> when dealing with megaregions, which are really just a combination >>> of >>> > >>> multiple "regular" regions of standard size. >>> > >>> >>> > >>> So I feel that backing up personal parcels should remain the >>> process >>> > >> of >>> > >>> maintaining items in your personal inventory and making a backup >>> of >>> > >> THAT >>> > >>> rather than the parcel area itself. >>> > >>> >>> > >>> - Len W. Brown >>> > >>> [email protected] >>> > >>> >>> > >>> On Sat, Nov 21, 2009 at 1:16 AM, Karen Palen >>> <[email protected]> >>> > >>> wrote: >>> > >>> >>> > >>> Just a thought, but with the economics of OpenSim being totally >>> > >> different >>> > >>> from Second Life, I wonder if we will end up with hundreds of tiny >>> > >> parcels >>> > >>> in each region? >>> > >>> >>> > >>> It seems to me that there are several issues here concerning >>> changes >>> > >> in >>> > >>> parcel size/location between backup and restore as well as some >>> > >>> ownership/covenant/zoning issues. >>> > >>> >>> > >>> As I think about the problem I am not sure I (or anyone else) can >>> > >> fully >>> > >>> articulate even the nature of those issues since they depend >>> heavily >>> > >> on >>> > >>> the >>> > >>> direction that OpenSim development and implementation takes. >>> > >>> >>> > >>> Just the same we do need to consider them as best we can lest we >>> fall >>> > >> into >>> > >>> some of the same traps as Second Life (content ownership, banking >>> > >> debacle, >>> > >>> and gambling come to mind). >>> > >>> >>> > >>> Karen >>> > >>> >>> > >>> --- On Fri, 11/20/09, Robert Klein <[email protected]> wrote: >>> > >>> >>> > >>>> From: Robert Klein <[email protected]> >>> > >>>> Subject: Re: [Opensim-users] Parcel Archiver? >>> > >>>> To: [email protected] >>> > >>>> Date: Friday, November 20, 2009, 6:09 PM >>> > >>>> >>> > >>>> Hey Justin, >>> > >>>> >>> > >>>> Yes that is correct, just archive a single parcel on a >>> > >>>> region. Whatever is >>> > >>>> in the parcel gets put into the PAR file. Can it be done? >>> > >>>> >>> > >>>> -Robert >>> > >>>> >>> > >>>> justincc wrote: >>> > >>>>> Robert Klein wrote: >>> > >>>>>> We have a OAR for regions and a IAR for inventory >>> > >>>> but what about a PAR >>> > >>>>>> for >>> > >>>>>> doing parcel area archiving? It would be an easy >>> > >>>> way to dedicate one >>> > >>>>>> subdivided parcel area for bringing things in and >>> > >>>> out of OpenSims that >>> > >>>>>> either use the mega region or just have a single >>> > >>>> region that is >>> > >>>>>> subdivided. >>> > >>>>>> Also the beauty of this would be in the future if >>> > >>>> you have renters or >>> > >>>>>> event >>> > >>>>>> spaces you can keep backups of just those spaces. >>> > >>>>> I'm not too sure if I get exactly what you mean. >>> > >>>> Are you talking about >>> > >>>>> archiving just the contents of a single parcel on a >>> > >>>> region? >>> > >>>>> -- >>> > >>>>> justincc >>> > >>>>> Justin Clark-Casey >>> > >>>>> http://justincc.org >>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>> > >>>>> Opensim-users mailing list >>> > >>>>> [email protected] >>> > >>>>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users >>> > >>>>> >>> > >>>>> >>> > >>>> -- >>> > >>>> View this message in context: >>> > >>> http://n2.nabble.com/Parcel-Archiver-tp4008165p4040934.html >>> > >>>> Sent from the opensim-users mailing list archive at >>> > >>>> Nabble.com. >>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ >>> > >>>> Opensim-users mailing list >>> > >>>> [email protected] >>> > >>>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users >>> > >>>> >>> > >>> >>> > >>> >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ >>> > >>> Opensim-users mailing list >>> > >>> [email protected] >>> > >>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users >>> > >>> >>> > >>> >>> > >>> >>> > >>> >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ >>> > >>> Opensim-users mailing list >>> > >>> [email protected] >>> > >>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users >>> > >>> >>> > >>> >>> > >> -- >>> > >> View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/Parcel-Archiver- >>> > >> tp4008165p4042739.html >>> > >> Sent from the opensim-users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >>> > >> _______________________________________________ >>> > >> Opensim-users mailing list >>> > >> [email protected] >>> > >> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users >>> > > >>> > > _______________________________________________ >>> > > Opensim-users mailing list >>> > > [email protected] >>> > > https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users >>> > > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > Opensim-users mailing list >>> > [email protected] >>> > https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> New! Receive and respond to mail from other email accounts from within >>> Hotmail Find out how. <http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/186394593/direct/01/ > >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Opensim-users mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users >> _______________________________________________ >> Opensim-users mailing list >> [email protected] >> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users >> >> > -- Justin Clark-Casey (justincc) http://justincc.org http://twitter.com/justincc _______________________________________________ Opensim-users mailing list [email protected] https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
