John, the thing that scares me about OCP is not that the technical interviews won't catch people who don't know anything. If I can't tech someone and find out that they just know what they studied for OCP, I shouldn't be doing tech interviews.
What I find disturbing is when the HR department makes the rule that unless a candidate has OCP on their resume, you can't hire them. It's the people who don't understand what is behind those initials who then make rules based on them that are worrisome. As an example, I have a FANTASTIC associate DBA. He's smart, quick to learn, motivated to learn on his own, curious and willing to ask for help. He doesn't have OCP. He doesn't have a college degree (he's ex-military and got his computer training there). If HR had had a policy that I could only hire someone with a college degree or someone with OCP, I would have lost one of the best assistants I've ever had. I have OCP through 8i. I took chauncey, took the additional tests to convert it OCP7, took the two upgrades for 8 and 8i respectively. I never studied for the tests, in fact, I took them on the spur of the moment each time. I had never worked with 8 or 8i when I took those upgrades. so what does that tell you? That I take standardized tests well, and can eliminate enough choices to be able to guess the correct answer more often than not. That pretty much qualifies me for "Do You Want to Be a Millionaire" but not for Oracle work. Do I list the OCP on my resume? Yes, because I am smart enough to know that it will open some doors. It's at the very end of a 4 page resume, so I don't know how often it actually gets seen. And that's my intention. I am very anxious to see just what the practicum test involves. I do wish you didn't have to take additional classes before you could qualify for it, but I understand that Oracle does try to make a profit. I'd like to see them accept an "equivalent" exam from somewhere else as well. If they are going to mimic what the colleges do for higher degrees they should do it properly. Rachel --- orantdba <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi Rachel, > > Now we are to the point, is it valuable? I say yes and I have > studied > for and > passed the ocp for 7, upgraded to 8 and to 8i and will soon take the > 9i > upgrade > test. I also hold the Oracle 7 certification that was offered by > Chauncey before > the Oracle came out with the OCP. Others say it is not. It is their > > dollar, and > they can spend it as they wish. > > Ultimately the market decides value, I don't believe that any sane > manager of DBA's > would hire someone just because they are ocp's. Managers would tend > to > value > relevant experience, the interview process, and degrees well before > looking at ocp's. > > So why do I think it is important? The first person who sees your > resume is usually > in the HR department. They cannot hire you but they can file your > resume in the > circular file. Cute little designations like OCA, OCP, OCM, MCP, > MCSE, > CNE, etc > help get you past those people and on to the people who can actually > understand you > when you talke about performing block dumps and interrogating the > itl. > Those people > can say yes and will because of my experience and interview presence. > > They will > probably not care one bit about the cute little designations, but it > is > irrevelant if I don't > get to talk to them. > > I have had the discussion at oow, etc with more than a few people > (perhaps even you) > asking if you had two candidates with exactly the same criterias but > one > had OCP and > one didn't which would you hire? This is a little like the "If god > is > all powerful can he make > a rock so big that he himself cannot pick it up" question. In the > case > described above I would > probably go to things like "Which is cheaper?", "Which had > experience > that most matched my > project?", " Which had the best personality match for my group?". I > > don't think OCP would > make that much of a difference. > > John > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > >John, > > > >I have no objection to Oracle trying to make money (heck, I own > stock, > >I WANT and expect them to make money!) > > > >The problem is not that they are trying to make money, but that this > is > >becoming something you HAVE to do/have to get a job working with > >Oracle. And they haven't convinced me of the value of that piece of > >paper. I know way too many certified DBAs who I wouldn't trust to > even > >query my databases. > > > >Rachel > > > >--- orantdba <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > >>Hmmm, > >> > >>Imagine that, a publicly traded company that it trying to make > >>money, I > >>am shocked > >>dismayed, I don't believe I will be able to sleep tonight. > >> > >>Chris, could you provide me with the list of companies that are > not > >>trying to make money? > >>I want to make sure that I don't go to work for them, or learn > their > >>products. > >> > >>John :-) > >> > >>[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > >> > >>>I'd say the cost is being raised. Look at the requirements for > >>> > >>each. > >> > >>>You can't just take the OCM exam. No we would first have to get > >>> > >>the > >> > >>>OCA. Whether or not we need the entry level cert we have to have > >>> > >>it. > >> > >>>Then, and only then, can we take the OCP. Then and only then, can > >>> > >>we > >> > >>>take the OCM and that is after we take these REQUIRED classes from > > >>>Oracle Ed. So someone the caliber of Steve Adams or Jared Still, > >>> > >>has > >> > >>>to spend money in a class that they could probably teach from > >>> > >>memory > >> > >>>before they can get certification and that is after getting 2 > other > >>> > >>>certs that have no value to them. Call me a cynic, but to me, > this > >>> > >>is > >> > >>>nothing but a money grab. > >>> > >>>From the website: > >>> > >>>--To become an Oracle Associate, you must pass the exams required > >>>-- for the Oracle Associate level of your selected job role. > >>> > >>Typically, > >> > >>>--two exams are required; the first one can be taken via the > >>> > >>Internet, > >> > >>>--while subsequent exams must be taken in a proctored environment. > >>> > >>By > >> > >>>--completing your Oracle Associate, you are half-way toward > >>> > >>achieving the > >> > >>>-- Oracle Certified Professional credential. > >>> > >>> > >>>--To become an Oracle Certified Professional, you must pass all > >>>required exams > >>>--in your selected job role, including those at the Associate > >>> > >>level. > >> > >>> > >>>--To become an Oracle Certified Master, you must first be an > Oracle > >>>--Certified Professional. Additionally, achieving your OCM > >>> > >>credential > >> > >>>--requires attending two advanced level Oracle University courses > >>> > >>from > >> > >>>--the list shown on this page as well as passing the OCM Practicum > >>> > >>exam. > >> > >>> > >>>--Chris > >>> > >>> > >>>-----Original Message----- > >>>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [ mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ] > >>>Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 9:16 AM > >>>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > >>>Subject: The OCP bar is being raised > >>> > >>> > >>>Anyone care to comment on the following, IMHO it's about time: > >>> > >-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > >>>--- > >>>Introducing two new levels of Oracle Certified Professional (OCP) > >>>Achievement > >>> > >>>A recent *IDC report on IT Education and Training Services quoted > === message truncated === __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! 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