What about for someone with not much experience? For me personally I have quite a few years experience in development with other langauges. However I have only used .net in a few minor/small projects.
Would a certification benefit me in an interview if I didn't have much commercial experience in .net technologies, but say 6-8 years in other languages/projects? On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 7:49 AM, Tony Wright <ton...@tpg.com.au> wrote: > I won't reject someone for not having a certification, however it is > indicative that they are at least familiar with the technologies associated > with the certification (assuming, of course, that they haven't had someone > else sit the exam for them!) I have learnt heaps doing various > certifications over the years. It is not a major part of my resume, but it > is there. > > T. > > -----Original Message----- > From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] > On Behalf Of Jamie Surman > Sent: Thursday, 11 November 2010 9:21 PM > To: ozDotNet > Subject: Re: [OT] Usefulness of Microsoft Certifications > > I must say, out of the people I have worked with who have passed the exams > and > the people I have worked with who haven't bothered, the "passed exams" camp > have > tended to be better developers on average. That is not to say that just > because > you have passed an exam you know more than someone who hasn't, of course. > > > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Scott Barnes <scott.bar...@gmail.com> > To: ozDotNet <ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com> > Sent: Thu, 11 November, 2010 6:28:05 > Subject: Re: [OT] Usefulness of Microsoft Certifications > > My take is this. > > Microsoft has a very turbulent / chaotic nature in the past 5 years? > to be fair the product road maps on a variety of teams has shifted and > changed quite a lot. Its part of a natural rebirth and as a result > there is a ripple effect that goes beyond "monkey see, monkey do" > examination. You not only need to digest what just happened, but then > you have to figure out how to make what just happen work in a fast > pace production ready environment(s). > > Looking at the examinations at the moment, the only real value I can > see in putting people through the gauntlet(s) themselves is to qualify > for the various Microsoft Partner certification etc. Even then its a > shallow return on investment once you have these for the said partner > value propositions (often customers would complain about the lack of > return for having to jump through so many hoops other than to have the > certification logo etc placed on a website). > > Then you have the cognitive load associated with the various > examinations, to be blunt the chances of you recalling information > like the ones you've seen in exams post an exam is probably quite low, > so in a sense all the exams and certifications really say out loud is > "this person is capable of reading and digesting information into > short term / working memory when required". How you can then adapt and > rationalize the information into todays projects is something i'd be > skeptical of seeing return on invested time as well. > > My thinking is this, they are bogus and a redundant process undertaken > by folks who generally have no clue as to what they are searching for > in a person and use this as the last desperate refuge to shift > accountability back to the person in question in stating "but you > should know this, didn't the exams cover this?" mentality. > > My 2c. > > > On Thu, Nov 11, 2010 at 3:49 PM, Michael Minutillo > <michael.minuti...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Well it all really depends on the programmer, the course, the teacher, > etc. > > Whilst at university (CS) I learned about Trees and Hashtables and Lists > and > > when to use one or the other. I learned boolean algebra and how to > simplify > > such an expression where appropriate. I learned about reference types > > (pointers anyway) and value types and when to use one or the other. And a > > whole host more. All of that is stuff you can teach yourself but for some > > people actually sitting down and doing it at university helps to get the > > knowledge in and ensure you don't have any gaps**. > > Just yesterday I used Isolated Storage in a Winforms app I am working on. > I > > did not know that such a thing existed before studying for an MS Cert > (that > > I did not sit for but that's devestating to my case) and would have been > > messing around trying to write text into a file in a temp folder or > > something. Before that I worked on an MVC2 app which is a framework I > taught > > myself with no coursework whatsoever. > > When two programmers come to an interview and one has sit an exam (or has > a > > uni degree) and the other doesn't then I expect the one that has to have > a > > broader knowledge base of the topic area (but not necessarily a deeper > one). > > I still wouldn't exclude someone from an interview process because they > > didn't have an MS Cert or Uni degree. It all depends on what you need > when > > you're hiring I guess. > > > > ** Imagine knowing about the collections stuff in .NET 1.1 but never > having > > learned the generic collections in .NET 2.0. *shudder* > > > > On Thu, Nov 11, 2010 at 1:33 PM, David Walker < > david.wal...@planbonline.com> > > wrote: > >> > >> I agree - several of our best programmers have never been to University > at > >> all. You have to wonder if three years worth fluff is really any good > for a > >> career - especially as the lecturers are generally poor teachers who are > >> forced to give lectures as part of their tenure... > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com on behalf of Nathan Schultz > >> Sent: Thu 11/11/2010 13:03 > >> To: ozDotNet > >> Subject: Re: [OT] Usefulness of Microsoft Certifications > >> > >> I know one IT manager who actually likes employing programmers with > >> degrees > >> outside of CS. People with vastly different backgrounds tend to think > >> about > >> problems differently. I remember reading Boeing does the same when they > >> develop their flight-systems, which are not only are quadruple-backed > up, > >> but are written by totally different teams with different backgrounds, > as > >> to > >> help minimize a bug being in the same place. > >> > >> There is also one programmer at work without a tertiary degree but is > >> passionate about it and is one of the best guys here. > >> > >> That said, I still believe getting a CS degree (at the very least) is > >> worthwhile. > >> > >> > >> > >> On Thu, Nov 11, 2010 at 12:51 PM, David Connors <da...@codify.com> > wrote: > >> > >> > On 11 November 2010 14:26, David Walker > >> > <david.wal...@planbonline.com>wrote: > >> > > >> >> Yeah fair enough. We all have CS degrees now - is it worth extending > >> >> these > >> >> to a Software Engineering degree/masters degree? > >> > > >> > > >> > I think it depends on the institution and course. When I was at uni I > >> > did a > >> > bachelor of information technology with a major in SE and minor in AI. > >> > I > >> > think all the degrees are pretty well rounded these days with soft > >> > systems > >> > methodology type stuff rather than just 100% dry comp sci. > >> > > >> > > >> >> Does any education provider offer something like this? My CS course > >> >> spent > >> >> alot of time dealing with topics which honestly I have never used, > and > >> >> will > >> >> never use - PRNG's, assembly etc... > >> >> > >> > > >> > The particular language programming task or language isn't really the > >> > issue > >> > - it is all the foundation knowledge and theory you get in the > process. > >> > That > >> > stuff is good for a lifetime transcends language/runtime/programming > >> > problem. > >> > > >> > -- > >> > *David Connors* | da...@codify.com | www.codify.com > >> > Software Engineer > >> > Codify Pty Ltd > >> > Phone: +61 (7) 3210 6268 | Facsimile: +61 (7) 3210 6269 | Mobile: +61 > >> > 417 > >> > 189 363 > >> > V-Card: https://www.codify.com/cards/davidconnors > >> > Address Info: https://www.codify.com/contact > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >
