Probably not. Companies hire people because they have a need to solve a problem. If they don't think that you'll be able to solve their problem, they won't hire you. For developers, the only way for them to be convinced that you are capable of doing the work is for them to see a pattern of solution delivery.
If you have this pattern in other languages, then that may be helpful, but you would probably need to cut your rate initially to find work in a new area. Just my opinion. T. From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Chris F Sent: Friday, 12 November 2010 11:50 AM To: ozDotNet Subject: Re: [OT] Usefulness of Microsoft Certifications What about for someone with not much experience? For me personally I have quite a few years experience in development with other langauges. However I have only used .net in a few minor/small projects. Would a certification benefit me in an interview if I didn't have much commercial experience in .net technologies, but say 6-8 years in other languages/projects? On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 7:49 AM, Tony Wright <ton...@tpg.com.au> wrote: I won't reject someone for not having a certification, however it is indicative that they are at least familiar with the technologies associated with the certification (assuming, of course, that they haven't had someone else sit the exam for them!) I have learnt heaps doing various certifications over the years. It is not a major part of my resume, but it is there. T. -----Original Message----- From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Jamie Surman Sent: Thursday, 11 November 2010 9:21 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: Re: [OT] Usefulness of Microsoft Certifications I must say, out of the people I have worked with who have passed the exams and the people I have worked with who haven't bothered, the "passed exams" camp have tended to be better developers on average. That is not to say that just because you have passed an exam you know more than someone who hasn't, of course. ----- Original Message ---- From: Scott Barnes <scott.bar...@gmail.com> To: ozDotNet <ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com> Sent: Thu, 11 November, 2010 6:28:05 Subject: Re: [OT] Usefulness of Microsoft Certifications My take is this. Microsoft has a very turbulent / chaotic nature in the past 5 years? to be fair the product road maps on a variety of teams has shifted and changed quite a lot. Its part of a natural rebirth and as a result there is a ripple effect that goes beyond "monkey see, monkey do" examination. You not only need to digest what just happened, but then you have to figure out how to make what just happen work in a fast pace production ready environment(s). Looking at the examinations at the moment, the only real value I can see in putting people through the gauntlet(s) themselves is to qualify for the various Microsoft Partner certification etc. Even then its a shallow return on investment once you have these for the said partner value propositions (often customers would complain about the lack of return for having to jump through so many hoops other than to have the certification logo etc placed on a website). Then you have the cognitive load associated with the various examinations, to be blunt the chances of you recalling information like the ones you've seen in exams post an exam is probably quite low, so in a sense all the exams and certifications really say out loud is "this person is capable of reading and digesting information into short term / working memory when required". How you can then adapt and rationalize the information into todays projects is something i'd be skeptical of seeing return on invested time as well. My thinking is this, they are bogus and a redundant process undertaken by folks who generally have no clue as to what they are searching for in a person and use this as the last desperate refuge to shift accountability back to the person in question in stating "but you should know this, didn't the exams cover this?" mentality. My 2c. On Thu, Nov 11, 2010 at 3:49 PM, Michael Minutillo <michael.minuti...@gmail.com> wrote: > Well it all really depends on the programmer, the course, the teacher, etc. > Whilst at university (CS) I learned about Trees and Hashtables and Lists and > when to use one or the other. I learned boolean algebra and how to simplify > such an expression where appropriate. I learned about reference types > (pointers anyway) and value types and when to use one or the other. And a > whole host more. All of that is stuff you can teach yourself but for some > people actually sitting down and doing it at university helps to get the > knowledge in and ensure you don't have any gaps**. > Just yesterday I used Isolated Storage in a Winforms app I am working on. I > did not know that such a thing existed before studying for an MS Cert (that > I did not sit for but that's devestating to my case) and would have been > messing around trying to write text into a file in a temp folder or > something. Before that I worked on an MVC2 app which is a framework I taught > myself with no coursework whatsoever. > When two programmers come to an interview and one has sit an exam (or has a > uni degree) and the other doesn't then I expect the one that has to have a > broader knowledge base of the topic area (but not necessarily a deeper one). > I still wouldn't exclude someone from an interview process because they > didn't have an MS Cert or Uni degree. It all depends on what you need when > you're hiring I guess. > > ** Imagine knowing about the collections stuff in .NET 1.1 but never having > learned the generic collections in .NET 2.0. *shudder* > > On Thu, Nov 11, 2010 at 1:33 PM, David Walker <david.wal...@planbonline.com> > wrote: >> >> I agree - several of our best programmers have never been to University at >> all. You have to wonder if three years worth fluff is really any good for a >> career - especially as the lecturers are generally poor teachers who are >> forced to give lectures as part of their tenure... >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com on behalf of Nathan Schultz >> Sent: Thu 11/11/2010 13:03 >> To: ozDotNet >> Subject: Re: [OT] Usefulness of Microsoft Certifications >> >> I know one IT manager who actually likes employing programmers with >> degrees >> outside of CS. People with vastly different backgrounds tend to think >> about >> problems differently. I remember reading Boeing does the same when they >> develop their flight-systems, which are not only are quadruple-backed up, >> but are written by totally different teams with different backgrounds, as >> to >> help minimize a bug being in the same place. >> >> There is also one programmer at work without a tertiary degree but is >> passionate about it and is one of the best guys here. >> >> That said, I still believe getting a CS degree (at the very least) is >> worthwhile. >> >> >> >> On Thu, Nov 11, 2010 at 12:51 PM, David Connors <da...@codify.com> wrote: >> >> > On 11 November 2010 14:26, David Walker >> > <david.wal...@planbonline.com>wrote: >> > >> >> Yeah fair enough. We all have CS degrees now - is it worth extending >> >> these >> >> to a Software Engineering degree/masters degree? >> > >> > >> > I think it depends on the institution and course. When I was at uni I >> > did a >> > bachelor of information technology with a major in SE and minor in AI. >> > I >> > think all the degrees are pretty well rounded these days with soft >> > systems >> > methodology type stuff rather than just 100% dry comp sci. >> > >> > >> >> Does any education provider offer something like this? My CS course >> >> spent >> >> alot of time dealing with topics which honestly I have never used, and >> >> will >> >> never use - PRNG's, assembly etc... >> >> >> > >> > The particular language programming task or language isn't really the >> > issue >> > - it is all the foundation knowledge and theory you get in the process. >> > That >> > stuff is good for a lifetime transcends language/runtime/programming >> > problem. >> > >> > -- >> > *David Connors* | da...@codify.com | www.codify.com >> > Software Engineer >> > Codify Pty Ltd >> > Phone: +61 (7) 3210 6268 | Facsimile: +61 (7) 3210 6269 | Mobile: +61 >> > 417 >> > 189 363 >> > V-Card: https://www.codify.com/cards/davidconnors >> > Address Info: https://www.codify.com/contact >> > >> > >> > >
