Re: 'educated' women

[Ms Elizabeth McCall]

Lynne Interesting that you cite the (I presume) MIDIRS Informed Choice leaflets. I Mavis Kirkham's attended presentation at the ICM Congress in Vienna regarding the analysis of the effectiveness of the leaflets. Very big study. From memory the results have been published in the BMJ . Unfortunately, once again the findings were not positive as the analysis indicated that women continue to believe the MO rather than evidence based leaflets. Mavis concludes that auhtorative knowledge ( that is the dominant ideology) is all and that decisions are made in a climate of blame & manipulation and control & fear. This is not to say don't use them, develop your own etc. Just to be aware that they are not necessarily going to be as influencing on decision making as we may think ( or hope)!  Liz McCall ----- Original Message ----- From: Lynne Staff To: Debby M Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, May 14, 2010 8:53 AM Subject: Re: 'educated' women Dear Debbie - I was saddened to read your posting but also so pleased you turned your experience into a positive learning one for yourself and others, as you shared with this list. Some years ago I had to do an assignment for uni where we had to choose a group of disadvantaged women and prepare a resource package for them, to make available for them in order to "maximise" their chances of a good birth (that means so many things to different people doesn't it?). Anyway, I chose privately insured women as a disadvantaged group and based my arguments on the high operative outcomes, that cannot be explained away by 'risk', and strengthened that argument using the way in which , and what information is provided to women by obstetricians (as women with Private Health insurance would get the majority of their information from their ob with that ever pervasive medical perspective).   I would love to talk to you more about this if you would be willing. Also I do agree that we (in Oz) need, as you say, some leaflets like the informed choice leaflets that are available in the UK. However, I was looking through them againh, the other day, and thinking that there are still some of the brochures which subtly (and some not-so-subtly) lead a woman 'that' way, and lead them away from listening to,  believing in and acting on their own bodily knowledge and what it tells them at this time.   Just my two cents worth - regards, Lynne ----- Original Message ----- From: Debby M To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, May 12, 2002 7:32 PM Subject: Re: 'educated' women I consider myself an educated woman.  Two degrees and post graduate studies would certainly indicate such however it is only since the birth of my first child that I came to realise how difficult it is for a medical lay person to obtain information that truely allows them to make an informed choice. My first birth was the classic cascade of intervention leading to a csec and I was led down that path by my obstetrician.  It wasn't until some months after the birth and a lot of reading, that I discovered there were many many aspects of the decisions made by myself that were far from informed.  On almost every aspect related to my "care" my obstetrician presented me with advice and information that could only lead me to conclude and agree that his advice for the recommended intervention was right.  I later found there were a whole range of risks and options that I was not told about and on one piece of intervention he actually out and out lied to me. I can only presume that he thought he was doing the right thing, but I also get the feeling that often we, the woman, are only told what our carer wants us to hear.  Whilst we may think we are informed at the time it is not until we get our noses into some good medical research papers and text books that we discover how much wider the risks and options are.  This in itself presents a couple of problems.  The first being time, and what do you teach women?  There is obviously a lot to learn or obstetric and midwifery training wouldn't take so long.  Some of the concepts I have read about I have had to bounce of my husband (a radiographer) to fully grasp what is being discussed and its implications, indicating that those with a lesser education than I may have even more difficulty in grasping some of the risks or benefits of different ideas related to labour management. I am very pro informing the woman.  I think one of the best ways this could be done would be to have a series of little brochures that talk in simplified terms that most women could understand what the causes, treatments and consequences of the myriad of birth related problems and procedures are, eg. Understanding Fetal Distress 1. Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. Click Here -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit to subscribe or unsubscribe.