[ozmidwifery] Low liquor was Trial of scar

[Lisa Gierke]

Title: Message

Felicity I have deliberatley left replying  until today so as not to reply in haste or anger and to try and understand where you are coming from.... Firstly I agree with you that women are not morons; but the reality for many of us is that the women we work with are not always willing to do extensive research into a form of care that is presented to them, and for some research may just involve logging onto  the internet and reading statements such as Janets, I still believe that such a statment is too broad & could prove problematic in such a situation. You are lucky if you work with women who read research and make informed descisons because for many of us, our realities are unfortuantely different and despite all the empowering in the world some choose not to be like this. And I disagree with the accuracy of Janets statement, as I am unable to find any literature that states that low liquor means labour is imminent. And for some women, decreased liqour volume, when present with other variables is indicative of an increased risk to the well being of her baby.   In hindsight I probably could have worded my post better- my dismissiveness related to the fact that I was presented with an opinion based paper as evidence for Janets statement, and yes opinion counts, but as a health professional I am also required to provide women with eveidence based information. No disrespect was directed at anyone. Yes I still believe that alittle knowledge can be dangerous. A perfect example is the woman who has a normal healthy fetus and decreased liqour .....is told by the doc that she must have IOL because there is a risk to the baby...she asks no further questions...presents for IOL which fails and she goes to CS, and has a PPH.. is this not a case of alittle info being dangerous... am sure midwives have countless such examples!    And in regards to birthing womans innate wisdom well, again this is not always the case unfortunately; as a woman presenting weekly from 32K, with various aches and pains, in the hope that someone will suggest IOL because she is tired of being pregnant is not being particulary wise. Not all woman have the wisdom or the intuiton when it comes to their pregnancies and their bodies that you speak of. In such a public forum I think we need to take into account all the women who birth babies in this country...including those who are experiencing less than normal pregnancies, and those too who choose not to inform themselves adequately, or those who leave the choices up to others. Lisa PS my apologies if I offended anyone for my use of the word 'management'................I obviously require further tuition in the art of political correctedness..... -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Stephen & Felicity Sent: Tuesday, 11 July 2006 12:12 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Low liquor was Trial of scar Lisa,   "such a broad  unsupported statement could lead a woman to believe that the current management of her pregnancy is incorrect because she read on this list of very experienced midwives and doulas that decreased liqour was only due to imminent labour."   Well, since women aren't morons, and pregnancy is not really an issue of "management" but rather CARE and SUPPORT, I don't think we need to fear that a woman reading research, evidence and opinion and making her own decisions will truly be endangered by "a little bit of knowledge" - if she is able to enjoy true control of her own pregnancy and birth and receive true care and support.  Besides which I personally find no flaw in Janet's reasoning and statement; it's accurate.  And this is a consumer list as much as it is a Midwife and Doula list.   "Mary I was not 'dismissing" the opinions of Gloria Lemay, and I am aware of her background."   Gloria Lemay's wisdom, experience and evidence based knowledge is not "the opinion of an American Doula" (I don't know of many women with more claim to the title of MIDWIFE than Gloria!) - besides which, I'm intrigued as to why an American Doula's contributions would hold little weight anyway?  If you ARE in fact aware of her background (as well as the fact that she can see and post on this list), I would have thought you would have at least phrased your dismissal more respectfully.  I also feel sad that wisdom, intuition, instinct and common sense are rejected and that Midwives will disregard the hard won wisdom of their own (Gloria made some colossal personal sacrifices in honour of TRULY being with woman and providing REAL support and care).   Where is our respect for our real crones and our birthing women's innate wisdom?   And I wouldn't "shoot an opinion from an Obstetrician down in flames" if that opinion was accurate, fair, woman-centered, evidence-based, and reasonable.