Edwina: Thank you for your opinion. But, who are you referring to? Two possibilities come to mind. Thomas? Thomas of Erfurt? (Pseudo-Scotus?) Peter of Spain? Otherwise?
Anyone else care to offer an opinion? Cheers Jerry Sent from my iPhone > On Feb 5, 2017, at 11:38 AM, Edwina Taborsky <tabor...@primus.ca> wrote: > > Jerry - the concept of empiricism, i.e., that knowledge is dervied from the > evidence of the senses, is as old as Aristotle - who espoused just that > [along with the use of reason]. > > But as a societal force, with its insistence that the individual and that > individual's direct contact with the world, is the source of knowledge - that > emerged, in my view, from at least the 13th century, which rebelled against > the church and theistic ownership of knowledge, which was defined as > non-sensual and purely rational. > > As for the historical emergence of the term in philosophy.....I'm sure > someone can answer that. > > Edwina > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jerry LR Chandler > To: Edwina Taborsky > Cc: John Collier ; Peirce-L > Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2017 12:26 PM > Subject: Re: [PEIRCE-L] Nominalism vs. Realism - > > John, Edwina, List: > > I am more than a bit surprised by the assertions that the Middle Ages gave > birth to "Empirism". > > Does anyone have a convenient reference to the historical emergence of this > term in philosophy? > > Cheers > Jerry > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Feb 5, 2017, at 10:24 AM, Edwina Taborsky <tabor...@primus.ca> wrote: >> >> John: >> >> Agreed, empiricism started in the 'middle ages' - and my point is that no >> 'thought-ideology' exists in a vacuum. Empiricism became an observable if >> peripheral force in the 13th century, as did the shift towards empowering >> individuals. >> >> I consider that philosophical ideologies do not exist in a vacuum but >> co-exist with political ideologies. My point is which ones are dominant? >> >> No- I am not confusing societal 'logic' [??]....with scientific logic. [I >> hate the term sociological for the abuses of thought found within so many >> sociology treatises]... Philosophic ideology is not the same as scientific >> logic. I am suggesting that a philosophical ideology is correlated with a >> societal ideology - and that empiricism, which began at least to emerge in >> open discourse in the 13th c, is correlated with the political ideology that >> affirmed support for individual interaction with the world. >> >> I certainly agree: Peirce wasn't political at all. My point is only that HIS >> analysis, with its three categories, works very well to disempower the >> extremes of both empiricism and idealism. >> >> Edwina >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: John Collier >> To: Edwina Taborsky ; Peirce-L >> Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2017 11:12 AM >> Subject: RE: [PEIRCE-L] Nominalism vs. Realism - >> >> I don’t agree. Edwina. Empiricism started in the Middle ages and went >> through periods of profound social transformation since while being changed >> relatively little. >> I don’t think it is a political ideology. >> I think that confusing sociological and scientific logic with each together >> leads to confusion, with which your post is rife. Much of what you say about >> empiricism just strikes me as irrelevant, with multitude counterexamples I >> won’t go into here except to note that empiricism co-existed with m any >> political ideologies. >> I don’t think that Peirce was particularly political in his logic or >> methodology, though I understand his politics tended to towards the >> conservative. He didn’t write much about real political issues of his time, >> and I doubt it was a major influence in his overall though. >> John Collier >> Emeritus Professor and Senior Research Associate >> Philosophy, University of KwaZulu-Natal >> http://web.ncf.ca/collier >> From: Edwina Taborsky [mailto:tabor...@primus.ca] >> Sent: Sunday, 05 February 2017 5:58 PM >> To: John Collier <colli...@ukzn.ac.za>; Peirce-L <PEIRCE-L@LIST.IUPUI.EDU> >> Subject: Re: [PEIRCE-L] Nominalism vs. Realism - >> I think that even a philosophical ideology , eg, the 'classic form of >> empiricism', has to be grounded in the societal infrastructure. >> Political ideologies certainly must be grounded; I think it's an error to >> say, for example, the 'democracy is the best political system', for any >> political system must give political power to that section of the population >> that produces wealth and so enables continuity of that society. If the >> majority of the population are producing wealth, then, democracy is the most >> functional political system. If only a minority are producing wealth [and >> this was the case for most of mankind's economic history], then, democracy >> would be dysfunctional. >> What about philosophical ideologies? Are they isolated from grounding in the >> societal infrastructure? I've outlined my view of the enormous societal >> impact of the rise of empiricism, which empowered ordinary individuals to >> interact, as they saw fit, with the world. The slippery slope downside is >> that it easily moves into the randomness of postmodern relativism and chaos. >> What about realism? How does it societally function? It removes the >> individual from sole access to 'truth' and inserts a 'community of >> scholars'. This removes randomness from the analysis. It posits a truth >> system based around general rules, where individual articulations of these >> rules are just that: individual and transient versions but almost minor in >> their real-life power except as versions of those rules. This has its own >> slippery slope of fundamental determinism and we've seen the results in many >> eras in our world history, including modern times. >> Peirce dealt with this with his focus on the freedom of Firstness and his >> view that the rules [Thirdness] evolve and adapt. This would enable a >> society to have a rule of law, with local variations - something required in >> a 'growth society' - i.e., a modern society as differentiated from a >> no-growth or pre-industrial society. >> Edwina >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: John Collier >> To: Jerry LR Chandler >> Cc: Peirce List ; Eric Charles ; Helmut Raulien >> Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2017 3:18 AM >> Subject: RE: [PEIRCE-L] Nominalism vs. Realism - “The union of units unifies >> the unity” >> Jerry, I think we are using ‘empiricism’ differently. I was using it in the >> classic form, not just to refer to anyone who uses the natural world as a >> touchstone for clarifying meaning and discovering the truth. I am an >> empiricist in this latter sense, but not the former. >> >> ----------------------------- >> PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "Reply List" or "Reply All" to REPLY ON >> PEIRCE-L to this message. PEIRCE-L posts should go to >> peirce-L@list.iupui.edu . To UNSUBSCRIBE, send a message not to PEIRCE-L but >> to l...@list.iupui.edu with the line "UNSubscribe PEIRCE-L" in the BODY of >> the message. More at http://www.cspeirce.com/peirce-l/peirce-l.htm . >> >> >> >> >> >> ----------------------------- >> PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "Reply List" or "Reply All" to REPLY ON >> PEIRCE-L to this message. PEIRCE-L posts should go to >> peirce-L@list.iupui.edu . To UNSUBSCRIBE, send a message not to PEIRCE-L but >> to l...@list.iupui.edu with the line "UNSubscribe PEIRCE-L" in the BODY of >> the message. More at http://www.cspeirce.com/peirce-l/peirce-l.htm . >> >> >> >> > > ----------------------------- > PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "Reply List" or "Reply All" to REPLY ON > PEIRCE-L to this message. PEIRCE-L posts should go to peirce-L@list.iupui.edu > . To UNSUBSCRIBE, send a message not to PEIRCE-L but to l...@list.iupui.edu > with the line "UNSubscribe PEIRCE-L" in the BODY of the message. 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