Jon,
Yes, Ive read that too: After the three wise men had left, an angel told Mary and Joseph that Herod wants to kill the child, and they should flee to Egypt, which they did. But the portray was "taken" in the barn, so they were not on their way yet, so technically they were not refugees already, only the next day or so. But maybe to portray them as refugees is justified with the artist´s license to hop over this small time gap? I think, the pope did not make the same mistake like me, but the journalist writing about the pope did. Anyway, Wendy is right by saying they were not refugees when the portray was "taken", and the sign becomes more complicated with this aspect of artist´s license having to be included. Maybe it increases the number of required pages to more than 20?
Happy new year,
Helmut
31. Dezember 2017 um 18:32 Uhr
Von: "Jon Alan Schmidt" <jonalanschm...@gmail.com>
Von: "Jon Alan Schmidt" <jonalanschm...@gmail.com>
Helmut, List:
----------------------------- PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "Reply List" or "Reply All" to REPLY ON PEIRCE-L to this message. PEIRCE-L posts should go to peirce-L@list.iupui.edu . To UNSUBSCRIBE, send a message not to PEIRCE-L but to l...@list.iupui.edu with the line "UNSubscribe PEIRCE-L" in the BODY of the message. More at http://www.cspeirce.com/peirce-l/peirce-l.htm .There are two accounts of the Holy Family in the Bible. Matthew includes the flight to Egypt to escape Herod after the visit of the Magi, which is presumably what the artist who portrayed them as refugees had in mind. Luke omits that particular episode.
FYI, www.biblegateway.com is a handy site for looking up Bible passages, especially since it includes various English versions and numerous other languages.
Regards,
Jon Alan Schmidt - Olathe, Kansas, USA
Professional Engineer, Amateur Philosopher, Lutheran Layman
On Sun, Dec 31, 2017 at 11:17 AM, Helmut Raulien <h.raul...@gmx.de> wrote:
Uh! Ive looked it up, and apologize. I am embarassed, why did I answer before looking it up? Now I dont see the point in the nativity picture anymore, an agree with Gary not to talk about it anymore. Sorry again, Wendy, happy new year!Wendy,but Mary, knowing she was pregnant, could not know whether somebody she had told this might have told it to Herodes´ spies? I dont know, maybe you are right, I just have to trust somebody about this, and please forgive me, I (at the time, hypothetically) rather trust the pope than you. I have not looked the matter up in the bible, though.Best,Helmut30. Dezember 2017 um 21:35 Uhr
Von: "Wendy Wheeler" <wendy.j.whee...@btinternet.com>Helmut,The reason they travelled was as I’ve stated - as given in the gospel of Luke. Had they stayed at home, there would have been no slaying of the first born by Herod since the latter, according to Matthew, heard of the birth in Bethlehem from the three wise men who came to witness it.I’m not concerned with the Pope’s comparison.Wendy
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On 30 Dec 2017, at 20:09, Helmut Raulien <h.raul...@gmx.de> wrote:Wendy,if they had stayed home, they would have had their first born slain. If this does not make them refugees, discuss it with the pope, who also compared them with the contemporary refugees.Best,Helmut30. Dezember 2017 um 20:57 Uhr
Von: "Wendy Wheeler" <wendy.j.whee...@btinternet.com>Dear Helmut (and list),I’ve come to this discussion both late and rather incompletely. I haven’t read every contribution closely. Can I point out, though, and in case nobody else has, that the Holy Family were not refugees. They were travelling to Joseph’s birthplace in obedience to the requirements of the Roman census. They returned home afterwards. The Trondheim Nativity scene under discussion here thus looks like an iconic sign used to mislead.Best wishes,Wendy Wheeler
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