Edwina, Auke, List: I appreciate the honest acknowledgment of disagreement with Peirce. However, nothing that I quoted from him "relies on man to define truth." There is no inconsistency whatsoever between his definitions of reality at the second and third grades of clarity, which I summarize as follows.
- Verbal definition of reality - that which is as it is regardless of what anyone thinks about it. - Pragmatistic definition of reality - that which would be affirmed in the ultimate opinion after infinite inquiry by an infinite community. Note that the latter describes a regulative ideal, not an actual achievement, so it does not rely on man to define truth (or reality) at all. It simply expresses the "cheerful hope" that our investigations of reality, if carried out far enough in a sincere spirit of *seeking *the truth, would eventually be self-correcting. For more on this, I once again highly recommend Robert Lane's recent book, *Peirce on Realism and Idealism* ( https://books.google.com/books/about/Peirce_on_Realism_and_Idealism.html?id=yKpCDwAAQBAJ ). As for Auke's post quoted below, I agree completely with Gary F.'s response (https://list.iupui.edu/sympa/arc/peirce-l/2021-06/msg00126.html). Regards, Jon Alan Schmidt - Olathe, Kansas, USA Structural Engineer, Synechist Philosopher, Lutheran Christian www.LinkedIn.com/in/JonAlanSchmidt - twitter.com/JonAlanSchmidt On Thu, Jun 17, 2021 at 8:12 AM Edwina Taborsky <tabor...@primus.ca> wrote: > List > > I think that Auke has brought up a vital analysis of 'what is reality'. > > JAS provided us with Peirce quotations that asserted that 'what is true' > is reality. I have a problem with such a definition, because it relies on > man to define truth and I consider allotting mankind such a role is > problematic. [indeed, dare I say, almost nominalistic]. > > I prefer the Peirce quotations selected by Auke, which put reality out of > the control of man's thoughts and return it to the external world. > > And as Auke added: "Real is that what is independent of individual > thought" [And I'd even add, of many individual thoughts for the collective > can be wrong]. Auke adds: "it is because of this independence of individual > thought that we can talk about the truth of propositions. Or the veracity > of a phanerosocpic exercise". > > Agreed; thanks. > > Edwina > > On Thu 17/06/21 2:08 AM , "Auke van Breemen" peirce-l@list.iupui.edu sent: > > Jon, > > CP 1. 175 The reality of things consists in their persistent forcing > themselves upon our recognition. > > CP 1.325 In the idea of reality, Secondness is predominant; for the real > is that which insists upon forcing its way to recognition as something > otherthan the mind's creation. > > This quote comes from your recent reponse to Edwina: > > CSP: That which any true proposition asserts is real, in the sense of > being as it is regardless of what you or I may think about it. (CP 5.432, > EP 2:343, 1905) > > And here we see what the relation is between propositions and reality. > In short: Real is that what is independed of individual thought. And it is > because of this independence of individual thought that we can talk about > the truth of propositions. Or the veracity of a pheneroscopic excercize. > > Best, > > Auke > >
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