List
I think that Auke has brought up a vital analysis of 'what is
reality'.
JAS provided us with Peirce quotations that asserted that 'what is
true' is reality. I have a problem with such a definition, because it
relies on man to define truth and I consider allotting mankind such a
role is problematic. [indeed, dare I say, almost nominalistic].
I prefer the Peirce quotations selected by Auke, which put reality
out of the control of man's thoughts and return it to the external
world.
And as Auke added: "Real is that what is independent of individual
thought" [And I'd even add, of many individual thoughts for the
collective can be wrong]. Auke adds: "it is because of this
independence of individual thought that we can talk about the truth
of propositions. Or the veracity of a phanerosocpic exercise".
Agreed; thanks.
Edwina
Edwina
On Thu 17/06/21 2:08 AM , "Auke van Breemen"
peirce-l@list.iupui.edu sent:
Jon,
CP 1. 175 The reality of things consists in their persistent forcing
themselves upon our recognition.
CP 1.325 In the idea of reality, Secondness is predominant; for the
real is that which insists upon forcing its way to recognition as
somethingotherthan the mind's creation.
This quote comes from your recent reponse to Edwina:
CSP: That which any true proposition asserts is real, in the sense
of being as it is regardless of what you or I may think about it. (CP
5.432, EP 2:343, 1905)
And here we see what the relation is between propositions and
reality.
can talk about the truth of propositions. Or the veracity of a
pheneroscopic excercizeIn short: Real is that what is independed of
individual thought. And it is because of this independence of
individual thought that we .
Best,
Auke
Op 16 juni 2021 om 16:31 schreef Jon Alan Schmidt :
Auke, Edwina, List:
AvB: The dynamical object of science is reality.
The dynamical object of every true proposition is reality, but as De
Tienne's slide 4 (posted yesterday) hints at the very bottom,
phaneroscopists are "pre-truthists." Again, the subject matter of
phaneroscopy is whatever is or could be present to the mind,
including imagination and hallucination.
AvB: If you were right, the different sciences would be concerned
with different realities.
Phaneroscopy is not concerned with the reality of phenomena at all,
only their appearances; that is what differentiates it from
metaphysics. It is also not limited to the study of signs, but
examines any and every kind of phenomenon; that is what
differentiates it from semeiotic.
Regards,
Jon Alan Schmidt - Olathe, Kansas, USAStructural Engineer, Synechist
Philosopher, Lutheran Christianwww.LinkedIn.com/in/JonAlanSchmidt [1]
- twitter.com/JonAlanSchmidt [2]
On Wed, Jun 16, 2021 at 7:38 AM Edwina Taborsky <
tabor...@primus.ca [3]> wrote:
Auke, list
Exactly. Splitting up areas into separate domains might give one the
feeling of being-in-control, but the dynamic object of science,
namely, reality - has been lost - within all the unconnected
immediate objects entrapped in each classification.
Edwina
On Wed 16/06/21 3:54 AM , "Auke van Breemen" peirce-l@list.iupui.edu
[4] sent:
Jon,
You wrote:
It is not just the method of analysis that is different for each
science within Peirce's classification, but also the object of study.
Phaneroscopy examines whatever is or could be present to the mind.
Semeiotic studies only signs and semiosis.
--
The dynamical object of science is reality. The branches of the
sciences deliver immediate objects of that dynamical object. If you
were right, the different sciences would be concerned with different
realities. But then, how could an involved branch provide the
principles for the next branch?
Best,
Auke _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
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