Edwina, List, I think, continuity means a gradient without steps. By looking at the gradient with a microscope, we see steps (e.g. quantums). By looking at the inner and outer edges of the steps, we see, that they are rounded (e.g. due to the Heisenbergean blurredness), so continuous again. By looking at these roundings, we see steps again (e.g. due to superstrings), and so on. Maybe this is so, maybe not. Maybe by experimental observations like these, we cannot tell, whether continuity or discreteness is more fundamental in terms of the smallest scale. But logically, I guess, that continuity is more fundamental, because it is easier to imagine, that a sharp-seeming edge is in fact rounded, than to imagine, that a rounding in fact has steps. The latter idea is more complicated, and refuting it is solely justified as application of Ockham´s razor. A gradient, like a rounding, is one thing, but steps are many things. The idea of one thing is easier than the idea of many things. But all in all, I have talked about my head and neck, because I am not so sure anymore about what I have written in my last post: Prescission may be interpolation too??
Best, Helmut
Gesendet: Montag, 12. Februar 2024 um 18:31 Uhr
Von: "Edwina Taborsky" <tabor...@primus.ca>
An: "Helmut Raulien" <h.raul...@gmx.de>
Cc: "Peirce-L" <peirce-l@list.iupui.edu>, "Edwina Taborsky" <edwina.tabor...@gmail.com>
Betreff: Re: [PEIRCE-L] The Proper Way in Logic (was Peirce's Ongoing Semiotic Project)
Von: "Edwina Taborsky" <tabor...@primus.ca>
An: "Helmut Raulien" <h.raul...@gmx.de>
Cc: "Peirce-L" <peirce-l@list.iupui.edu>, "Edwina Taborsky" <edwina.tabor...@gmail.com>
Betreff: Re: [PEIRCE-L] The Proper Way in Logic (was Peirce's Ongoing Semiotic Project)
Helmut - I agree with your outline, where the three categories are operative within continuity. But what is continuity?
I consider it as the basic ‘force’ of the universe to ‘exist as signs [ ie discrete entities]. , This force, which Peirce variously called Mind, Nature, God, means that the energy that IS the universe functions as a ‘rational action’ [ie Mind] by constantly transforming itself into ever more complex networked discreteness, operative within evolving habits-of-formation [and chance!]. There is no final perfection, because of the realities of both 2ns and 1ns which introduce freedom and variation and, importantly, the indexicality of locality.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ ARISBE: THE PEIRCE GATEWAY is now at https://cspeirce.com and, just as well, at https://www.cspeirce.com . It'll take a while to repair / update all the links! ► PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "Reply List" or "Reply All" to REPLY ON PEIRCE-L to this message. PEIRCE-L posts should go to peirce-L@list.iupui.edu . ► To UNSUBSCRIBE, send a message NOT to PEIRCE-L but to l...@list.iupui.edu with UNSUBSCRIBE PEIRCE-L in the SUBJECT LINE of the message and nothing in the body. More at https://list.iupui.edu/sympa/help/user-signoff.html . ► PEIRCE-L is owned by THE PEIRCE GROUP; moderated by Gary Richmond; and co-managed by him and Ben Udell.If we consider the basic identity of the universe as E=MC2 [ and I think we have to accept this!] then it can be understood that Energy is transforming into Matter — within a rational, networked, ordered manner - to prevent, as Michael pointed out, thermodynamic entropy. It is this ‘force-of-transformation’ that I consider as the definition of ‘continuity. After all - without it - thermodynamics, as Michael pointed out, jumps in..and….
Edwina
On Feb 12, 2024, at 12:01 PM, Helmut Raulien <h.raul...@gmx.de> wrote:List, I think, we can prescind discreteness from continuity, e.g. by supposing the formation of attractors, or coagulation, or reentry (logical or actual loops), but we cannot prescind continuity from discreteness. So everything including thirdness is at first based on continuity, even if it requires discreteness. I think, that thirdness requires discreteness, because a relation as part of structure, and a habit too, can and has to be prescinded (or discriminated, or dissociated) as something discrete from continuity, to logically handle it.Best, HelmutGesendet: Montag, 12. Februar 2024 um 03:07 Uhr
Von: "Edwina Taborsky" <tabor...@primus.ca>
An: "Peirce-L" <peirce-l@list.iupui.edu>
Cc: "Edwina Taborsky" <edwina.tabor...@gmail.com>
Betreff: Re: [PEIRCE-L] The Proper Way in Logic (was Peirce's Ongoing Semiotic Project)List- I don’t see synergism as equivalent to Thirdness, for Thirdness is the establishment of habits, ie, habitual ‘modes of being’ - which habits are established by and within the universe in conjunction with the modes of both Firstness and Secondness. .Instead, synergism, or continuity, seems to me, more akin to the concept of free energy…the genuinely general, so to speak - and this free energy is the basis of our universe> “Continuity is nothing but perfect generality of a law of relationship” 6.170. See also his outline of ’The Logic of th Universe 6.189, where, again, continuity is understood as ‘generality’. This is not the same as the general laws of Thirdness which are generated within and by the universe for the maintenance of its reality as material exiistentiality._ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ ARISBE: THE PEIRCE GATEWAY is now at https://cspeirce.com and, just as well, at https://www.cspeirce.com . It'll take a while to repair / update all the links! ► PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "Reply List" or "Reply All" to REPLY ON PEIRCE-L to this message. PEIRCE-L posts should go to peirce-L@list.iupui.edu . ► To UNSUBSCRIBE, send a message NOT to PEIRCE-L but to l...@list.iupui.edu with UNSUBSCRIBE PEIRCE-L in the SUBJECT LINE of the message and nothing in the body. More at https://list.iupui.edu/sympa/help/user-signoff.html . ► PEIRCE-L is owned by THE PEIRCE GROUP; moderated by Gary Richmond; and co-managed by him and Ben Udell.As he writes, the universe, made up of Secondness or discrete entities, began ‘in the utter vagueness of completely undetermined and dimensionless potentiality” 6.193. This, to me, is not Thirdness. It is free energy. ..which I see as continuity/synechism.Jerry- I’m sorry, but you’ve lost me - I’ve no idea what you are referring to .EdwinaAgain, my understanding of this is thatOn Feb 11, 2024, at 8:41 PM, Jon Alan Schmidt <jonalanschm...@gmail.com> wrote:_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _Mike:I do not know what you mean by "penultimate" in this context. As I have said on the List many times before, as well as in my published work, my understanding of synechism as applied in metaphysics is that the entire universe is an inexhaustible continuum (3ns) of indefinite possibilities (1ns), some of which are actualized (2ns). Again, discrete things and their dyadic reactions, as well as monadic qualities and their inherence in discrete things, are degenerate outcomes of continuous and triadic semiosis.Regards,JonOn Sun, Feb 11, 2024 at 5:15 PM Mike Bergman <m...@mkbergman.com> wrote:_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _Hi Jon,
To quibble, I see synechism and its great definer of continuity as the guiding principle of Thirdness (as I think Peirce did, too). It can't be elevated to the penultimate, because our operative world also requires the discrete and discontinuous. (Enter 2nd law of thermodynamics stage left.)
Best, Mike
On 2/11/2024 5:03 PM, Jon Alan Schmidt wrote:Mike:I am glad that we agree on that point. I also agree that it is a mistake to treat semiosis as the most fundamental aspect of Peirce's philosophy, and that his three universal categories--firmly grounded in both the hypothetical science of mathematics and the primal positive science of phaneroscopy--are even more central, especially as an organizing principle.However, Peirce's preference to call his overall system of thought synechism suggests that he regarded "continuity as an idea of prime importance in philosophy" (CP 6.103, EP 1:313, 1892)--especially since he also stated, "I carry the doctrine so far as to maintain that continuity governs the whole domain of experience in every element of it" (CP 7.566, EP 2:1, 1893). This has implications for semiosis as I have already outlined, as well as the categories--1ns is prescinded from 2ns and 3ns, and 2ns is prescinded from 3ns; but 2ns cannot be built up from 1ns, and 3ns cannot be built up from 1ns and 2ns.Regards,Jon Alan Schmidt - Olathe, Kansas, USAStructural Engineer, Synechist Philosopher, Lutheran ChristianOn Sun, Feb 11, 2024 at 3:13 PM Mike Bergman <m...@mkbergman.com> wrote:Hi Jon,
Here is a point with which I have vehement agreement with you (dare I say I suspect Edwina does as well):
What I can say is that I obviously disagree with anyone who confines semiosis to the biological realm, since I maintain with Peirce that the entire universe is "a vast representamen" that is "perfused with signs, if it is not composed exclusively of signs."Further keys to this assertion are found in Peirce's writings on evolution, emergence, cosmogony, and his anticipation of the quantum vs the classical. These are a focus of my current studies.One of the bones I have to pick with many scholars of semiosis is their too literal restriction to human signs and perhaps even elevating semiosis as a Peircean thesis first among others. I have found the universal categories to be a more robust grounding to generalize to the entirety of Nature and its manifestations.
Best, Mike
-- __________________________________________Michael K. Bergman 319.621.5225 http://mkbergman.com http://www.linkedin.com/in/mkbergman __________________________________________
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