List I agree with Mike. Thirdness, in my view, does not imply or require intentionality. That, after all, suggests some kind of consciousness - and I think we find Thirdness in chemical and physical matter - and these forms of matter do not include consciousness.
I have a problem with the quote of “Continuity presents 3ns almost to perfection’ 1.337. I think that the rules of Thirdness CAN and must be, for a certain period of time, ‘continuous and stable.After all- we cannot live iin a world where a cat suddenly transforms into a dog. BUT, since thirdness also includes 2ns and 1ns, then, it contains within itself, the ability to interact with other units of matter - as well as chance - and thus, has the capacity to accept more data and thus, change these ‘continuous rules’ and so, adapt and evolve. Again - I consider that Peircean ‘continuity’ is not 3ns but is the continuous morphological semiosis formation of energy-into-matter - which is ongoing [ or else, as has been pointed out, entropy sneaks in]…. Edwina > On Feb 12, 2024, at 5:19 PM, Mike Bergman <m...@mkbergman.com> wrote: > > Hi John, > > I categorically disagree. Intentionality may be an example of Thirdness, but > is not definitive of it. JAS just posted "Continuity represents 3ns almost to > perfection" (CP 1.337, c. 1882), which I concur best captures (with Mind) > Peirce's prominent view of Thirdness, and contintuity does not require > intentionality. You might even diagram it out. > > And don't forget crystals (and atoms). > > Best, Mike > > > > On 2/12/2024 3:59 PM, John F Sowa wrote: >> Mike, >> >> In every example and application that Peirce wrote or cited, Thirdness >> involves intentionality. But intentionality is not an anthropomorphic >> notion, it is biomorphic in the most fundamental sense. >> >> Lynn Margulis wrote that a bacterium swimming upstream in a glucose gradient >> is a primitive example of intentionality, and no non-living physical system >> shows any kind of intentionality, I believe that Peirce would agree, since >> he cited dogs, parrots, bees, and even plants at various times. >> >> And by the way, viruses don't have intentions, since they're not alive. >> They are signs that are interpreted by living things to produce more signs >> of the same kind. >> >> John >> >> >> From: "Mike Bergman" <m...@mkbergman.com> <mailto:m...@mkbergman.com> >> Hi Edwina, Helmut, List, >> >> I would like to hear you expand, Edwina, on what you mean about the >> 'idexicality of locality'. And, speaking of entropy, here is another >> possible link to the universal categories. >> >> flash (of light) [1ns] - energy [2ns] - information [3ns] >> >> I've been toying with this thought for quite a few years. Peirce's cosmogony >> begins with a flash (significantly a reference to light). I don't know if >> 'flash' is the right analog in Firstness, since both quantum mechanics and >> the nature of energy can arguably be better traced to the ideas of harmonic >> oscillators. Still, there is something pregnant in that nexus . . . . >> >> For decades there has been confusion and controversy about entropy in the >> sense of thermodynamics and its relation to Shannon (information) entropy. >> It strikes me that recasting these in terms of Peircean Secondness (energy) >> and Thirdness (information) brings sense to the conundrum. Both apply; it is >> more a matter of contextual interpretation. >> >> What say the list? >> >> Thanks! >> >> Best, Mike >> > -- > __________________________________________ > > Michael K. Bergman > 319.621.5225 > http://mkbergman.com <http://mkbergman.com/> > http://www.linkedin.com/in/mkbergman > __________________________________________ > _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ > ARISBE: THE PEIRCE GATEWAY is now at > https://cspeirce.com and, just as well, at > https://www.cspeirce.com . It'll take a while to repair / update all the > links! > ► PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "Reply List" or "Reply All" to REPLY ON > PEIRCE-L to this message. PEIRCE-L posts should go to peirce-L@list.iupui.edu > . > ► To UNSUBSCRIBE, send a message NOT to PEIRCE-L but to l...@list.iupui.edu > with UNSUBSCRIBE PEIRCE-L in the SUBJECT LINE of the message and nothing in > the body. More at https://list.iupui.edu/sympa/help/user-signoff.html . > ► PEIRCE-L is owned by THE PEIRCE GROUP; moderated by Gary Richmond; and > co-managed by him and Ben Udell.
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