Hi benoit I think that this is clear to everybody :) Now I would like to be able to help and for that we need a case.
Stef On Feb 10, 2012, at 2:59 AM, Benoit St-Jean wrote: > Before we even get to the details, we should make sure we all exchange on a > polite and non agressive tone. > > That being said, I don't think Bill is whining. You never hear people who > don't care. I don't give a damn about product X, environment Y and > programming language Z. That's why I never complain (or whine) about X, Y or > Z. On the other hand, that's why you'll hear me complain about Smalltalk, > Pharo, mathematics and a few other topics. Why? Because I care! > > Saying stuff don't work shouldn't be perceived as an ad hominem attack. It > just shows someone, somewhere, somehow had an interest to say it so it gets > fixed. And please, no "if you're no happy why don't you fix it and > contribute" answer... This is the kind of answer that made me walk away from > Pharo at a certain point... > > If we can't take critics/bugs/suggestions/tickets/whatever without entering a > "defensive mode", we won't get far. > > Let's keep it cool and remember that nobody forced anyone to use Pharo and > read this mailing list and take the time to post. > > We're all here because we do care! > > ----------------- > Benoit St-Jean > Yahoo! Messenger: bstjean > A standpoint is an intellectual horizon of radius zero. > (Albert Einstein) > From: Dale Henrichs <dhenr...@vmware.com> > To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr > Sent: Thursday, February 9, 2012 8:33:20 PM > Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] 1.4 - better from Jenkins > > Bill, > > The last time you complained about Metacello being broken I asked you for a > stack trace and I have seen no stack trace, although I believe that you were > able to confirm that Metacello worked fine until you loaded some of your own > code into the system ... > > Here you are complaining again ... if you don't provide specifics, the issues > cannot be resolved ... > > There are apparently a lot of moving parts in your system, so it takes great > attention to detail to get such a system running smoothly. The fact that you > don't provide specifics tells me that perhaps you are not paying attention to > the details ... > > When you are porting to a new environment (for you) like Pharo 1.4, you > should stop and isolate the FIRST ERROR that you encounter ... in a > complicated system once an error occurs, all bets are off ... You MUST pay > attention to details ... > > You state that you have a giant debug log ... so it sounds like you tried to > keep moving forward in the face of initial errors...I say good luck with that > approach! > > If you post a Metacello stack trace I can very likely tell you what went > wrong, if you prefer to continue to whine and complain about Metacello > without even attempting to help me characterize the issues, then I will leave > you to your own devices and you can can complain about Metacello all you want > --- I won't be paying attention any more:) > > Dale > > > ----- Original Message ----- > | From: "Wilhelm K Schwab" <bsch...@anest.ufl.edu> > | To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr > | Sent: Thursday, February 9, 2012 4:26:27 PM > | Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] 1.4 - better from Jenkins > | > | I think you might be right about loading the .mcz files. But I don't > | have an expectation other than what has been said here many times: > | that Metacello is the future. So far, I don't see it. > | > | Bill > | > | > | ________________________________________ > | From: pharo-project-boun...@lists.gforge.inria.fr > | [pharo-project-boun...@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Yanni > | Chiu [ya...@rogers.com] > | Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2012 6:22 PM > | To: pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr > | Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] 1.4 - better from Jenkins > | > | On 09/02/12 5:39 PM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: > | > Sven, > | > > | > Fair enough, but the game plan is for people to use Metacello > | > configurations to load what they need to build an image. I am > | > attempting to do just that, and am reporting (rather negative so > | > far) experience, with debug logs. > | > > | > Pharo's fault or not, something is broken. But if Pharo is going > | > to send users into the current state of Metacello, the weather > | > around the lighthouse is going to be grim. > | > > | > Interesting ideas about the package cache being damaged. Maybe the > | > logs will reveal something?? > | > | You might want to check the package cache for 0-length .mcz files, > | which > | might happen when the server is down. > | > | When I upgrade to a new image version, I just start my build process > | with the new image, and cross my fingers. If it fails, then I do it > | manually with the build script in a workspace - select each > | framework/package and "doIt". Sometimes I run the framework's tests, > | after each step. > | > | I load all "community" code first, unless I have extensions to this > | code. Sometimes I've had to upgrade to a newer version of the > | framework, > | if available. At other times, I had to create patches because I was > | tracking the Pharo updates (so no fixed version was available yet). > | > | In extreme cases, I've had to generate the list of packages that > | Metacello would load, then load each .mcz individually. > | > | Typically, I'd do "save image as" at various points, to be able to > | get > | back to the problem code, more quickly. > | > | I think you're pretty much following a similar process, except the > | expectation that a Metacello configuration should just load without > | problems on Pharo1.4-unstable is too optimistic. > | > | > | > | > > >
