Am 13.02.2012 20:25 schrieb "Stéphane Ducasse" <stephane.ducasse<stephane.duca...@inria.fr> @ <stephane.duca...@inria.fr>inria.fr <stephane.duca...@inria.fr>>: > > Dear Guido
Hi Stef! > > Do the right things, make Pharo, Seaside *usable* > > Did you try with VisualWorks? > I'm pretty sure that you can use it without paying a license. :) > > > Look at: > > http://<http://www.cyberport.de/notebook-und-tablet/notebook-berater/erweiterte-suche/liste.html> www.cyberport.de<http://www.cyberport.de/notebook-und-tablet/notebook-berater/erweiterte-suche/liste.html> /<http://www.cyberport.de/notebook-und-tablet/notebook-berater/erweiterte-suche/liste.html> notebook<http://www.cyberport.de/notebook-und-tablet/notebook-berater/erweiterte-suche/liste.html> -und-<http://www.cyberport.de/notebook-und-tablet/notebook-berater/erweiterte-suche/liste.html> tablet<http://www.cyberport.de/notebook-und-tablet/notebook-berater/erweiterte-suche/liste.html> /<http://www.cyberport.de/notebook-und-tablet/notebook-berater/erweiterte-suche/liste.html> notebook<http://www.cyberport.de/notebook-und-tablet/notebook-berater/erweiterte-suche/liste.html> -<http://www.cyberport.de/notebook-und-tablet/notebook-berater/erweiterte-suche/liste.html> berater<http://www.cyberport.de/notebook-und-tablet/notebook-berater/erweiterte-suche/liste.html> /erweiterte-suche/<http://www.cyberport.de/notebook-und-tablet/notebook-berater/erweiterte-suche/liste.html> liste.html<http://www.cyberport.de/notebook-und-tablet/notebook-berater/erweiterte-suche/liste.html> > > > > Selecting notebooks by price, endurance, weight, with sliders. I could sell *hundreds* of those shops to customers, big companies, hosting inclusive for 20.000 each. > > Are you doing such web site? With Seaside? With Pharo? Wie started off a project, a shop like this, with Seaside on Pharo, and we had to give up, when benchmarks came into consideration. You remember, some time ago, you and Marcus denied all my complaints: http://<http://forum.world.st/Hanging-connects-exhausted-resources-memory-leaks-bocked-everything-Unusable-td3669616.html> forum.world.st<http://forum.world.st/Hanging-connects-exhausted-resources-memory-leaks-bocked-everything-Unusable-td3669616.html> /<http://forum.world.st/Hanging-connects-exhausted-resources-memory-leaks-bocked-everything-Unusable-td3669616.html> Hanging<http://forum.world.st/Hanging-connects-exhausted-resources-memory-leaks-bocked-everything-Unusable-td3669616.html> -<http://forum.world.st/Hanging-connects-exhausted-resources-memory-leaks-bocked-everything-Unusable-td3669616.html> connects<http://forum.world.st/Hanging-connects-exhausted-resources-memory-leaks-bocked-everything-Unusable-td3669616.html> -<http://forum.world.st/Hanging-connects-exhausted-resources-memory-leaks-bocked-everything-Unusable-td3669616.html> exhausted<http://forum.world.st/Hanging-connects-exhausted-resources-memory-leaks-bocked-everything-Unusable-td3669616.html> -<http://forum.world.st/Hanging-connects-exhausted-resources-memory-leaks-bocked-everything-Unusable-td3669616.html> resources<http://forum.world.st/Hanging-connects-exhausted-resources-memory-leaks-bocked-everything-Unusable-td3669616.html> -<http://forum.world.st/Hanging-connects-exhausted-resources-memory-leaks-bocked-everything-Unusable-td3669616.html> memory<http://forum.world.st/Hanging-connects-exhausted-resources-memory-leaks-bocked-everything-Unusable-td3669616.html> -<http://forum.world.st/Hanging-connects-exhausted-resources-memory-leaks-bocked-everything-Unusable-td3669616.html> leaks<http://forum.world.st/Hanging-connects-exhausted-resources-memory-leaks-bocked-everything-Unusable-td3669616.html> -<http://forum.world.st/Hanging-connects-exhausted-resources-memory-leaks-bocked-everything-Unusable-td3669616.html> bocked<http://forum.world.st/Hanging-connects-exhausted-resources-memory-leaks-bocked-everything-Unusable-td3669616.html> -<http://forum.world.st/Hanging-connects-exhausted-resources-memory-leaks-bocked-everything-Unusable-td3669616.html> everything<http://forum.world.st/Hanging-connects-exhausted-resources-memory-leaks-bocked-everything-Unusable-td3669616.html> -<http://forum.world.st/Hanging-connects-exhausted-resources-memory-leaks-bocked-everything-Unusable-td3669616.html> Unusable<http://forum.world.st/Hanging-connects-exhausted-resources-memory-leaks-bocked-everything-Unusable-td3669616.html> -td3669616.html<http://forum.world.st/Hanging-connects-exhausted-resources-memory-leaks-bocked-everything-Unusable-td3669616.html> What has happened? I went on with pushing development of a similar shop (see cyberport.de) and finally lost several 10.000nds of €, because Pharo/Seaside *is* much too slow for any serious enterprise. > > Pharo/Seaside *is* the right tool if YOU WOULD DO THE RIGHT THINGS, not just bothering some class structure deep in Pharo. > > > > Pharo hangs even at *directly* serving static pages at low loads. I hoped to see significant speedups due to lack of any 3/4/5 tier middleware with being everything done within one VM. Database, delivery, … > > Provide real code and examples. My former complaints (see link above) have been ignored, calling me a Troll, and in the meantime this list *is full* of reports Pharo being unstable. You as being the *always optimistic* chief develloper and project manager your lazy attitude already has cost me a lot of €!!! More than your annual income! But ok, my personal risk! > > I am still disappointed. Welcome in the *real world*. Doing academic brainfuck is not sufficient. > > :) > Who are you to know what we are really doing :) I follow all changes, i know, hat you are aiming at! But - you've got the wrong priorities! Stability *always* comes first!!! > > So are your etats for developing Pharo, near ZERO. Start thinking like business men! Listen to that, what customers want! > > > I would be curious to see your "clients". I've got best connections to top 500 enterprise and deciders in germany. I would be pleased to present them a Seaside Shop, running on Pharo, PostgreSql or Magma behind, ready to run from within one image. > Pharo is far from what we dream about but we are serious about it and we are concerned by business. > > Now your trolling is good because we are not an obscure community without a troll but we have one troll > so this is good. Thanks. Ok. If you are not able to get Pharo development managed under consideration of business needs, means: benchmarks and stress tests equiv to sunit tests, please step back as project leader! > If you are positive and provide information that is not just bullshitting then we will consider to reply and consider your request else *plonk* I am positive, still, although you cost me much money. Happy hacking! Guido Stepken
