clair ching <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Kutch: Supporting M$ piracy won't cut it =) We still have to give > people options.
Yes. However, when you look back, all this talk about piracy, intellectual property and licenses, it becomes all petty, since it somehow prevents us from working to the fullest, and having fun... >> Ricky: In what you previously said: >> "I realized that this is anathema to many Linux users. You're supposed >> to know gcc and bash in order to use Linux. >> What is happening is that in teaching Linux here with these features >> as necessary parts to understanding means that a good many non-sysad >> types will be turned-off." I'd like to recall something I saw in one of the HOWTOs: Linux grows with you. =) > I only started using Linux in August of last year. I don't know GCC > and I just know a bit of BASH. It has been tough making time learning > some things on the CLI. When I started, I was already familiar with gcc (as far as how to compile software, like building Emacs on MSDOG/DJGPP) and bash (I had my shell account by then, though I've yet to read bash(1).) However, even if I hadn't seen those by the time I've installed woody, as long as there's true motivation, there are no anathemas. > Previously there has been a flurry of messages concerning CLI and GUI > (you could check the archives). I think that for people who have just > been introduced to Linux, one way of encouraging them to learn to do > things on the CLI is to show them how powerful it is =) There are a > lot of nifty things that one can do on it. That way, they can be > challenged to go beyond using the GUI. Sooner or later they will be > comfortable with it ;) But there are other users who probably don't > think they have to go beyond the GUI. Well, I guess it's ok for > starters, as you never could force people into doing things =) Hehe! Well, it could be argued that Emacs is both a CLI and GUI, but that's another spawn of a thread... But seriously, I'd like to think that GUIs are GUIdes towards an enlightened desktop metaphor. Alan Kay's forecast into the unknown almost 5 decades ago may now be the norm, but with Moore's Law, we're getting closer to the point where desktops are no longer `desktops' in the usual sense. Other metaphors, ranging from tiled workspaces to multidimensional environments are picking up steam, and maybe within the next few years, we might be able to see better, more fantastic ideas. But along that way, a CLI holds open ground... >> On Tue, 08 Mar 2005 22:34:15 +0800, Zak B. Elep <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> Indeed. Another instance of popular choice severely constrained by the >> lack of choice. And even when there are choices, most humans take the >> easy path of ignoring open knowledge in preference to laziness and/or >> ineptitude of FOSS given their current situation. >> > So I guess it's still a matter of perspective =) So we have to tell > them the truth about FOSS so that they will be set free from their > current mindset ;) And all we offer is the truth, nothing more... >> Same as the `diploma culture' most Filipinos adopt. Of course, by itself >> it isn't a bad thing, but we tend to stick to a particular >> side/brand/way even if we know its kinda wrong... > > Stikcing to a brand that people are "sure of", is the more appropriate > statement, I think. Yes, that would be a better expression. > People won't buy a new brand unless it has been tried and tested and > endorsed by so many others. Individual computer users may find it > easier to adopt FOSS because they are the ones who will primarily be > affected. In larger institutions and companies, they have more things > to consider, as was said somewhere in this thread. So maybe sticking > to a particular brand may not be inherently wrong... Just boxes > people in =( That's true, and that's what I'm hinting wrt corps and orgs: the more people involved, the more these bodies ought to study carefully their current systems and find ways to improve it non-destructively. I'm just hoping the top brass would be enough on such matters... > I guess that that this is something that has to be done so that people > won't be overwhelmed. I was overwhelmed myself when I got introduced > to Linux and FOSS in general. But intro texts and other documents have > helped me gain a bit more of understanding =) That is why I am > advocating the use of FOSS right now ;) So we need exposure and documentation that is (a) as open as FOSS, (b) accessible to both the educationally- and financially-challenged, and (c) be able to meet both the needs of noobs and leets halfway (but not half-and-half, as that would be half-baked.) Anyone with the 3 T's to spare on this? > True. But people promoting FOSS also have a certain degree of > responsibility in how they help the company transition into using > FOSS, ne? =) Yep. When the company migrates, these people should be the ones depended upon by the workforce in resolving the issues that crop up. Novell's effort is a good example. > At least it's OOo ;) Who knows? Maybe the next time you drop by > they'll be running on Linux :D I hope so when I get back to Manila soon; I'm back home safe and sound, but I'll miss Sacha's talk on the 12th... *sigh* -- ZAK B. ELEP <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> -- <http://zakame.spunge.org> 1024D/FA53851D 1486 7957 454D E529 E4F1 F75E 5787 B1FD FA53 851D -- Running Debian GNU+Linux testing/unstable. GnuPG signed mail preferred.
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