jgg, As I pointed out the SCOTUS ruled in 1943 that a public school student cannot be forced to recite the pledge. Why is this such a big deal to you?
On Nov 19, 11:31 am, jgg1000a <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > If true, then there would be no fuss in the first place about saying > the pledge using the "Under God"... Any 1st grader chooses their own > role models right??? But of course that the assumption is that they > can not "choose freely" is the basis of restricting teacher led > pledges... > > On Nov 19, 11:55 am, Hollywood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > jgg, > > > Your talking nonesense. An individual normally chooses his/her own > > role models, it is not demanded of them to choose a specific role model > > (s). > > > On Nov 19, 9:38 am, jgg1000a <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > When it is used in the curriculum it IS USED as a role model... But > > > you knew this... > > > > On Nov 18, 5:35 pm, Hollywood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > jjg, > > > > > Bull-shit. How is mere existance of a book a DEMAND that kids take > > > > same sex couples as ROLE MODELS? You better look up the word "demand" > > > > and the term "role model". Pure partisan gibberish. > > > > > On Nov 18, 4:05 pm, jgg1000a <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > The selection of textbooks says it all... Do a google. > > > > > > On Nov 18, 4:52 pm, Hollywood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > jgg, > > > > > > > Please show me where and how it is DEMANDED of 6th graders they use > > > > > > same sex couples as ROLE MODELS. > > > > > > > On Nov 18, 11:17 am, jgg1000a <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > From the article > > > > > > > > >>> "We don't want to isolate children every day in their own > > > > > > > >>> classroom, or make them feel they're different," said > > > > > > > >>> Principal Michaela Martin. > > > > > > > > That is exactly what they are doing by requiring kids to go > > > > > > > elsewhere > > > > > > > to recite the pledge... The simplest solution is to have the > > > > > > > kids > > > > > > > say it in the classroom with those kids who don't... It would > > > > > > > be a > > > > > > > lesson in being tolerant of another's opinion in the Public > > > > > > > Square... > > > > > > > > >>> Isn't it simply the adults scoring political points for one > > > > > > > >>> side or the other by using the kids and this pledge? > > > > > > > > Ah yes, the "kids are too dumb to understanding" straw man... As > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > question applies to six graders also in this case, will you say > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > same about a 12 year old??? FYI there are kids as young as 5 or > > > > > > > 6 to > > > > > > > whom understanding of "God" or "Pledge" IS grasped... Do not > > > > > > > these > > > > > > > kids have the right to say the Pledge??? Or is it the agenda of > > > > > > > adults with a particular POV who wish to impose the habit of > > > > > > > EXCLUDING GOD from the Public Square??? > > > > > > > > As to the purpose of the Pledge -- to instill a sense of duty > > > > > > > owed to > > > > > > > one's country and community... And that IS a valid educational > > > > > > > goal... As valid as the demand that families of same sex couples > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > used as role models... The real issue here is WHOSE agenda is > > > > > > > incorporated into the curriculum, the nutscases of the Left does > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > GOD or patriotism in the agenda on the whole... And that IS A > > > > > > > PROBLEM... > > > > > > > > On Nov 18, 11:26 am, Hollywood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > jgg, > > > > > > > > > Maybe the question should be why does it matter to any rational > > > > > > > > person > > > > > > > > WHERE the pledge is said? > > > > > > > > Has anyone questioned at what age a kid is old enough to > > > > > > > > understand > > > > > > > > the significance of what the pledge means? Ask a 2rd grader to > > > > > > > > define > > > > > > > > the word "pledge" at certain ages is not the "pledge" simply > > > > > > > > like a > > > > > > > > "song" or "poem" they have memorized w/o understanding the > > > > > > > > meaning or > > > > > > > > significance? What is the real point here? Isn't it simply the > > > > > > > > adults > > > > > > > > scoring political points for one side or the other by using the > > > > > > > > kids > > > > > > > > and this pledge? > > > > > > > > > On Nov 18, 8:31 am, jgg1000a <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > That Hollywood is the question in this matter... Do not the > > > > > > > > > students > > > > > > > > > who wish to say the Pledge have the right to do it in their > > > > > > > > > classroom? > > > > > > > > > > On Nov 17, 6:36 pm, Hollywood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > jjg, > > > > > > > > > > > Beats the fuck out of me. > > > > > > > > > > > On Nov 17, 3:23 pm, jgg1000a <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > So why make the kids who want to say it go to the gym... > > > > > > > > > > > > On Nov 17, 3:52 pm, Hollywood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > jgg, > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is all really simple. Kid wants to say it fine, > > > > > > > > > > > > kid dosen't want > > > > > > > > > > > > to say it, fine. Someone is afraid a kid might be > > > > > > > > > > > > criticized for > > > > > > > > > > > > either saying it or not saying it, toogh shit. that's > > > > > > > > > > > > likfe. > > > > > > > > > > > > You DO know that the phrase "under God" was not an > > > > > > > > > > > > original part of > > > > > > > > > > > > the pledge and was adding during the 1950"s "Oh my God > > > > > > > > > > > > the commie's > > > > > > > > > > > > are going to get us" phase, right? > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Nov 17, 9:00 am, jgg1000a <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Here is a current Separation where Secularist are > > > > > > > > > > > > > seeking to enforce > > > > > > > > > > > > > their ban Religion from the Public Square... The > > > > > > > > > > > > > question is not > > > > > > > > > > > > > IF but when, where, and who... A side note, isn't > > > > > > > > > > > > > having the kids > > > > > > > > > > > > > who do not wish to say "under God" stay in the > > > > > > > > > > > > > classrooms while the > > > > > > > > > > > > > rest of the students go to the gym "isolating them"??? > > > > > > > > > > > > > >http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/article/20081114/NEWS/81114027 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> Unlike other Pledge controversies, this one > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> centers on how and where schoolchildren say it, > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> not whether they should be allowed to. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In 1943, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that > > > > > > > > > > > > > schoolchildren can opt out > > > > > > > > > > > > > of reciting the pledge for religious reasons. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sixty-one years later, the court said a California > > > > > > > > > > > > > father couldn't > > > > > > > > > > > > > challenge the Pledge of Allegiance, reversing a > > > > > > > > > > > > > lower-court decision > > > > > > > > > > > > > saying teacher-led Pledge recitals in public schools > > > > > > > > > > > > > were > > > > > > > > > > > > > unconstitutional. That case involved an atheist who > > > > > > > > > > > > > didn't want his > > > > > > > > > > > > > third-grader to have to listen to the phrase "under > > > > > > > > > > > > > God." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But it didn't rule on the constitutionality of > > > > > > > > > > > > > compulsory recitation. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The brouhaha in the Vermont school began in > > > > > > > > > > > > > September, when parent Ted > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tedesco began circulating petitions calling for its > > > > > > > > > > > > > return as a daily > > > > > > > > > > > > > practice in the 19th-century schoolhouse, which has > > > > > > > > > > > > > 55 children in > > > > > > > > > > > > > grades kindergarten through six. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > School officials agreed to resume the pledge as a > > > > > > > > > > > > > daily exercise, but > > > > > > > > > > > > > not in the classroom. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "We don't want to isolate children every day in their > > > > > > > > > > > > > own classroom, > > > > > > > > > > > > > or make them feel they're different," said Principal > > > > > > > > > > > > > Michaela Martin. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Instead, starting last week, a sixth grade student > > > > > > > > > > > > > was assigned to go > > > > > > > > > > > > > around to the four classrooms before classes started, > > > > > > > > > > > > > gathering up > > > > > > > > > > > > > anyone who wanted to say it and then walking them up > > > > > > > > > > > > > creaky wooden > > > > > > > > > > > > > steps to a second-floor gymnasium, where he led them > > > > > > > > > > > > > in the pledge. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About half the students chose to participate, > > > > > > > > > > > > > according to Martin.- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups. 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