Well, maybe IT WAS ALREADY SAID... A repost of a quote >>> The latest evidence being cited are weapons with Iranian manufacturer >>> labels with 2006 date-stamps. Included are anti-tank rockets and >>> precision-milled and shaped IED’s. But the IED moniker is a misnomer in >>> this instance, because the armor-piercing shaped copper explosives are >>> designed specifically to defeat the armor on M1 Abrams tanks and >>> retrofitted HMMV’s. There’s nothing ‘improvised’ about these explosive >>> devices. And they are Iranian-made, Iranian-delivered and designed to kill >>> American and British troops in their armored vehicles.
But you KNEW that, Instead of reading first and posting with reason and logic, you toss out straw man meant to distract and change the discussion... Mike point was there were few if none Iranian supplied weapons in Iraq... He of course LIED, because shaped IEDs were Iranian made and they DID become the main weapon of various militias... On Nov 19, 12:56 pm, Hollywood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > jgg, > > Why did you not say we were going to use definitions provided by, or > commonly used, by the media and NOT factual and actual terms. How the > hell was i suppossed to know you wanted to base the entire discussion > on inaccuracies and falsehoods? > > Did you not read my previous statement where i said the insurgents in > Iraq have almost certainly been supplied with some Iranian > manufactured weapons? > > On Nov 19, 11:43 am, jgg1000a <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > And of course the common term for these shaped IEDs in the newspaper > > is IED... Dislike the term the MSM applies to shaped IEDs??? > > Complain to them... In the meantime, in this discussion, IEDs refer > > to the manufactured shaped IEDs BECAUSE this is the definition used by > > the MSM... > > > Now do you want to discuss Iranian made IEDs (shaped IEDs) or not??? > > Or do you wish to make a straw man to distract from the issue at hand > > -- that is "Did Iran make and ship IEDs to Iraq to Shia militias and > > perhaps AQ??? > > > On Nov 19, 12:30 pm, Hollywood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > jgg, > > > > Obviously a weapon made by any country's munitions industry and part > > > of their military arsenal is NOT an IED. > > > Do you wish to talk about IED's or do you wish to talk about the > > > Iranian munitions industry? > > > > On Nov 19, 10:52 am, jgg1000a <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > May I assume you read all the links??? > > > > > On Nov 19, 11:40 am, Hollywood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > jgg, > > > > > > MUST I repeat myself? > > > > > > On Nov 19, 9:49 am, jgg1000a <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > Read the links in Keith In Tampa post... Mike too often finds an > > > > > > isolated fact, ignores the other facts and claims truth when in fact > > > > > > his is engaged in propaganda... > > > > > > > On Nov 18, 7:11 pm, Hollywood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > jgg, > > > > > > > > So, you make no claim that they are NOT indeed facts? > > > > > > > Very interesting. > > > > > > > > On Nov 17, 3:51 pm, jgg1000a <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > I have many times, you just ignore them... But you use highly > > > > > > > > selected facts for an tin foil outcome... > > > > > > > > > On Nov 17, 3:59 pm, "mike [move on] 532" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > aw poor baby did i rain on your parade again ? hey if you > > > > > > > > > can show > > > > > > > > > any of the facts in this article are wrong please do so . > > > > > > > > > > On Nov 17, 12:27 pm, jgg1000a <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Mike desperate to exploit "Hate BUSH ALL the time" > > > > > > > > > > fanatics, posted > > > > > > > > > > another lie by half or less truth... By selectively > > > > > > > > > > choosing facts > > > > > > > > > > that fit the assumption Mike has once again proved that any > > > > > > > > > > thesis can > > > > > > > > > > be proven true if your side controls which facts are > > > > > > > > > > permissible... > > > > > > > > > > > It is rumored that Mike's new book will conclusively prove > > > > > > > > > > the Moon is > > > > > > > > > > made of green cheese and that Wisconsin dairy farmer > > > > > > > > > > lobbyists have > > > > > > > > > > paid off governmental watch dogs in order to inflate the > > > > > > > > > > price of > > > > > > > > > > green cheese.. This vast RW conspiracy according to Mike > > > > > > > > > > is just > > > > > > > > > > another example of the neo-cons seeking to control the > > > > > > > > > > world... > > > > > > > > > > > Sources tell this reporter that Mike is said to have claim > > > > > > > > > > ed "Hitler > > > > > > > > > > and Stalin were geniuses at half truth lies, so I follow > > > > > > > > > > their expert > > > > > > > > > > advise"... Mike refused to comment about how he learned > > > > > > > > > > his spin > > > > > > > > > > craft... > > > > > > > > > > >http://www.mikesfoghorn.com > > > > > > > > > > > On Nov 17, 6:44 am, "mike [move on] 532" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > US Task Force Found Few Iranian Arms in Iraq > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.truthout.org/111608C > > > > > > > > > > > Washington - Last April, top George W. Bush > > > > > > > > > > > administration officials, > > > > > > > > > > > desperate to exploit any possible crack in the close > > > > > > > > > > > relationship > > > > > > > > > > > between the Nouri al-Maliki government and Iran, launched > > > > > > > > > > > a new round > > > > > > > > > > > of charges that Iran had stepped up covert arms > > > > > > > > > > > assistance to Shi'a > > > > > > > > > > > militias. > > > > > > > > > > > > Secretary of Defence Robert M. Gates suggested that > > > > > > > > > > > there was > > > > > > > > > > > "some sense of an increased level of [Iranian] supply of > > > > > > > > > > > weapons and > > > > > > > > > > > support to these groups." And Washington Post reporter > > > > > > > > > > > Karen DeYoung > > > > > > > > > > > was told by military officials that the "plentiful, high > > > > > > > > > > > quality > > > > > > > > > > > weaponry" the militia was then using in Basra was > > > > > > > > > > > "recently > > > > > > > > > > > manufactured in Iran". > > > > > > > > > > > > But a U.S. military task force had been passing on > > > > > > > > > > > data to the > > > > > > > > > > > Multi-National Force Iraq (MNFI) command that told a very > > > > > > > > > > > different > > > > > > > > > > > story. The data collected by the task force in the > > > > > > > > > > > previous six weeks > > > > > > > > > > > showed that relatively few of the weapons found in Shi'a > > > > > > > > > > > militia > > > > > > > > > > > caches were manufactured in Iran. > > > > > > > > > > > > According to the data compiled by the task force, and > > > > > > > > > > > made > > > > > > > > > > > available to an academic research project last July, only > > > > > > > > > > > 70 weapons > > > > > > > > > > > believed to have been manufactured in Iran had been found > > > > > > > > > > > in post- > > > > > > > > > > > invasion weapons caches between mid-February and the > > > > > > > > > > > second week in > > > > > > > > > > > April. And those weapons represented only 17 percent of > > > > > > > > > > > the weapons > > > > > > > > > > > found in caches that had any Iranian weapons in them > > > > > > > > > > > during that > > > > > > > > > > > period. > > > > > > > > > > > > The actual proportion of Iranian-made weapons to > > > > > > > > > > > total weapons > > > > > > > > > > > found, however, was significantly lower than that, > > > > > > > > > > > because the task > > > > > > > > > > > force was finding many more weapons caches in Shi'a areas > > > > > > > > > > > that did > > > > > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > > > have any Iranian weapons in them. > > > > > > > > > > > > The task force database identified 98 caches over the > > > > > > > > > > > five-month > > > > > > > > > > > period with at least one Iranian weapon, excluding caches > > > > > > > > > > > believed to > > > > > > > > > > > have been hidden prior to the 2003 U.S. invasion. > > > > > > > > > > > > But according to an e-mail from the MNFI press desk > > > > > > > > > > > this week, > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > task force found and analysed a total of roughly 4,600 > > > > > > > > > > > weapons caches > > > > > > > > > > > during that same period. > > > > > > > > > > > > The caches that included Iranian weapons thus > > > > > > > > > > > represented just 2 > > > > > > > > > > > percent of all caches found. That means Iranian-made > > > > > > > > > > > weapons were a > > > > > > > > > > > fraction of one percent of the total weapons found in > > > > > > > > > > > Shi'a militia > > > > > > > > > > > caches during that period. > > > > > > > > > > > > The extremely small proportion of Iranian arms in > > > > > > > > > > > Shi'a militia > > > > > > > > > > > weapons caches further suggests that Shi'a militia > > > > > > > > > > > fighters in Iraq > > > > > > > > > > > had been getting weapons from local and international > > > > > > > > > > > arms markets > > > > > > > > > > > rather than from an official Iranian-sponsored smuggling > > > > > > > > > > > network. > > > > > > > > > > > > The database was compiled by MNFI's Task Force Troy, > > > > > > > > > > > which was > > > > > > > > > > > directed to examine all weapons caches found in Iraq > > > > > > > > > > > beginning in > > > > > > > > > > > early January 2008 to identify Iranian-made weapons. The > > > > > > > > > > > database was > > > > > > > > > > > released by MNFI last July to the Empirical Studies of > > > > > > > > > > > Conflict > > > > > > > > > > > project, co-sponsored by the U.S. Military Academy and > > > > > > > > > > > Princeton > > > > > > > > > > > University, and was published for the first time by West > > > > > > > > > > > Point's > > > > > > > > > > > Counter-Terrorism Centre last month as an appendix to a > > > > > > > > > > > paper on > > > > > > > > > > > Iranian strategy in Iraq by Joseph Felter and Brian > > > > > > > > > > > Fishman. > > > > > > > > > > > > In late April, the U.S. presented the Maliki > > > > > > > > > > > government with a > > > > > > > > > > > document that apparently listed various Iranian arms > > > > > > > > > > > found in Iraq > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > highlighted alleged Iranian arms found in Basra. But the > > > > > > > > > > > U.S. > > > > > > > > > > > campaign > > > > > > > > > > > to convince Iraqi officials collapsed when Task Force > > > > > > > > > > > Troy analysed a > > > > > > > > > > > series of large weapons caches uncovered in Basra and > > > > > > > > > > > Karbala in > > > > > > > > > > > April > > > > > > > > > > > and May. > > > > > > > > > > > > Caches of arms found in Karbala late last April and > > > > > > > > > > > May totaled > > > > > > > > > > > more than 2,500 weapons, and caches in Basra included at > > > > > > > > > > > least 3,700 > > > > > > > > > > > weapons, according to official MNFI statements. That > > > > > > > > > > > brought the > > > > > > > > > > > total > > > > > > > > > > > number of weapons found in those former Mahdi Army > > > > > > > > > > > strongholds to > > > > > > > > > > > more > > > > > > > > > > > than 6,200 weapons. > > > > > > > > > > > > But the task force found that none of those weapons > > > > > > > > > > > were Iranian- > > > > > > > > > > > made. The database lists three caches found Apr. 19, but > > > > > > > > > > > provides no > > > > > > > > > > > data on any of them. It lists no other caches for the > > > > > > > > > > > region > > > > > > > > > > > coinciding with that period, confirming that no weapons > > > > > > > > > > > had been > > > > > > > > > > > found > > > > > > > > > > > to be of Iranian origin. > > > > > > > > > > > > In announcing the weapons totals discovered in Basra > > > > > > > > > > > to reporters > > > > > > > > > > > on May 7, Maj. Gen. Kevin Bergner said nothing about the > > > > > > > > > > > provenance > > > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > the weapons, implicitly admitting that they were not > > > > > > > > > > > Iranian-made. > > > > > > > > > > > > Only two months before the new high-level propaganda > > > > > > > > > > > push on > > > > > > > > > > > alleged Iranian weapons supply to Shi'a militias, the > > > > > > > > > > > U.S. command > > ... > > read more » --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups. For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum * Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/ * It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls. * Read the latest breaking news, and more. -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
