My recollection is that he did, during the Gulf war during the early 1990s.
On Fri, May 15, 2009 at 7:23 PM, Mark <[email protected]> wrote: > Saddam NEVER lobbed a missle into Israel. As to rewarding suicide bombers > families he or any one else had that opportunity and was not alone in aid to > a "martyrs" family.... it was a political ploy to garner support from other > Moslem factions (substitute nouns and it happens all the time in the *US) > *it is NOT a crime in any nation. > > On Fri, May 15, 2009 at 5:17 PM, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > >> >> Saddam was lobbing missles at Israel and paying suicide bomber >> families $25,000. Jordan was on the side of Iraq. The Saudis were >> throwing sell-your- gold and support the terrorists bingo parties. >> >> On May 15, 5:38�pm, Mark <[email protected]> wrote: >> > They have no reason to read YOUR constitution as it only effects US soil >> and >> > those on it. Outside your borders it is "just a piece of paper". >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > On Fri, May 15, 2009 at 4:18 PM, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: >> > >> > > I think you measure an enemy and doubt terrorist Muslims are reading >> > > our Constitution. The Germans and Japanese were considered modern >> > > industrial nations with strong cultures. It didn't prevent us from >> > > pounding them into ashes. >> > >> > > On May 15, 4:40 pm, THE ANNOINTED ONE <[email protected]> wrote: >> > > > So, the ACLU, whose only purpose is to see the constitution enforced >> > > > as written is BS. I guess the constitution is "just a piece of >> > > > paper"........ >> > >> > > > On May 14, 6:31 am, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: >> > >> > > > > I doubt al queda debates the bs of the ACLU. >> > >> > > > > On May 14, 7:26 am, VT VirtualTruth <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> > >> > > > > > Nothing yet from the Bush torture apologists? >> > >> > > > > > I guess Rush hasn't told them what to think yet..... >> > >> > > > > > On May 13, 9:03 pm, VT VirtualTruth <[email protected]> >> > > wrote: >> > >> > > > > > > The excuses, the rationalizations, the lies all of this to >> avoid >> > > > > > > war crime trials for torture, torture that a SUCCESSFUL >> interogator >> > > > > > > swore under oath, did not work! >> > >> > > > > > > OH and the CIA interogator who said that water boarding DID >> > > > > > > break Abu Zubaydah in seconds, recanted his statement, it >> appears >> > > > > > > not only wasn't he present but he was mistaken about what he >> was >> > > > > > > told! >> > >> > > > > > > On May 13, 8:09 pm, VT Sean Lewis <[email protected]> >> > > wrote: >> > >> > > > > > > > Harsh interrogation techniques ineffective,' former FBI >> agent >> > > > > > > > testifies >> > >> > > > > > > > By WARREN P. STROBEL >> > > > > > > > McClatchy Newspapers >> > > > > > > > A former FBI special agent who interrogated senior al-Qaida >> > > captives >> > > > > > > > told the Senate Judiciary Committee on Wednesday that harsh >> > > > > > > > interrogation techniques are "ineffective, slow and >> unreliable," >> > > and >> > > > > > > > disputed claims by former Vice President Dick Cheney and >> others >> > > that >> > > > > > > > they helped uncover major terrorist plots. >> > >> > > > > > > > Ali Soufan, a veteran FBI investigator, said that CIA >> officials >> > > and >> > > > > > > > others responsible for the extreme measures inflated the >> > > program's >> > > > > > > > successes and downplayed the consequences of physical abuse. >> > >> > > > > > > > "The situation was, and remains, too risky to allow someone >> to >> > > > > > > > experiment with amateurish, Hollywood-style interrogation >> methods >> > > that >> > > > > > > > in reality taints sources, risks outcomes, ignores the end >> game >> > > and >> > > > > > > > diminishes our moral high ground," Soufan said. >> > >> > > > > > > > "It was one of the worst and most harmful decisions made in >> our >> > > > > > > > efforts against al-Qaida," he said. >> > >> > > > > > > > Former State Department official Philip Zelikow, who in 2005 >> was >> > > > > > > > Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice's point man in a battle >> to >> > > > > > > > overhaul the Bush administration's detention and >> interrogation >> > > > > > > > policies, joined Soufan in criticizing the use of techniques >> such >> > > as >> > > > > > > > waterboarding, a form of simulated drowning that's widely >> > > considered >> > > > > > > > torture. >> > >> > > > > > > > Zelikow said the U.S. could combat terrorism without >> resorting to >> > > > > > > > extreme methods. >> > >> > > > > > > > "Others may disagree," he said. "The government, and the >> country, >> > > > > > > > needs to decide whether they are right. If they are right, >> our >> > > laws >> > > > > > > > must change, and our country must change. I think they are >> > > wrong." >> > >> > > > > > > > Cheney has argued that the now-defunct CIA program, which >> > > included a >> > > > > > > > global network of secret prisons, produced valuable >> intelligence >> > > that >> > > > > > > > thwarted terror attacks and saved American lives. >> > >> > > > > > > > Cheney, who's scheduled to give a major speech on the >> subject >> > > next >> > > > > > > > week at the American Enterprise Institute, a conservative >> > > Washington >> > > > > > > > policy organization, has called for the release of two >> classified >> > > CIA >> > > > > > > > memos that he says detail the program's successes. >> > >> > > > > > > > However, Sen. Russ Feingold, D-Wis., a member of the Senate >> > > Judiciary >> > > > > > > > and Intelligence committees, said he's seen the two >> documents and >> > > they >> > > > > > > > don't prove Cheney's case. >> > >> > > > > > > > Soufan's testimony apparently was the first public appraisal >> by a >> > > > > > > > senior U.S. government interrogator who dealt directly with >> > > suspected >> > > > > > > > terrorists in CIA custody. >> > >> > > > > > > > It came a month after President Barack Obama released four >> > > Bush-era >> > > > > > > > Justice Department legal memos justifying methods that >> included >> > > > > > > > confinement boxes, sleep deprivation and slamming detainees >> into >> > > > > > > > walls. That reopened the debate over whether top Bush >> officials >> > > should >> > > > > > > > be investigated and prosecuted for their actions. >> > >> > > > > > > > Adding to the drama, Soufan testified from behind a screen >> where >> > > the >> > > > > > > > senators, but not the audience, could see him. Since at >> least one >> > > > > > > > photo of Soufan is available on the Internet, the reason for >> the >> > > > > > > > security measures wasn't readily apparent. >> > >> > > > > > > > Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., who's also an Air Force Reserve >> > > lawyer, >> > > > > > > > said the Bush administration erred in its reading of the law >> but >> > > > > > > > argued that harsh interrogation techniques sometimes produce >> > > valuable >> > > > > > > > information. >> > >> > > > > > > > He challenged Soufan to dispute that. >> > >> > > > > > > > "I can only speak to my experience," the former FBI agent >> > > replied. >> > >> > > > > > > > "That's the point, isn't it?" Graham retorted. >> > >> > > > > > > > Soufan was a lead FBI interrogator of Abu Zubaydah, one of >> the >> > > first >> > > > > > > > major al-Qaida figures to be captured after the Sept. 11, >> 2001, >> > > > > > > > terrorist attacks. The initial interrogation of Zubaydah, >> using >> > > the >> > > > > > > > bureau's traditional, rapport-building techniques, yielded >> > > valuable >> > > > > > > > intelligence, including the role of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed >> as the >> > > > > > > > mastermind of the Sept. 11 attacks, he said. >> > >> > > > > > > > Then-CIA director George Tenet congratulated the >> interrogators - >> > > until >> > > > > > > > he learned that they were from the FBI, not the CIA, Soufan >> said. >> > > A >> > > > > > > > team from the CIA's Counterterrorism Center that included a >> > > government >> > > > > > > > contractor quickly replaced him and his colleagues. They >> > > introduced >> > > > > > > > harsh interrogation techniques, and Zubaydah's cooperation >> > > stopped, >> > > > > > > > Soufan said. >> > >> > > > > > > > After complaints from officials in Washington about the >> dried-up >> > > > > > > > intelligence flow, Soufan and colleagues reverted to the >> > > traditional >> > > > > > > > approach, and Zubaydah began talking again. >> > >> > > > > > > > To bolster the Democrats' case against torture, Sen. Sheldon >> > > > > > > > Whitehouse, D-R.I., released summaries of Soufan's >> interrogations >> > > of >> > > > > > > > another al-Qaida figure, Abu Jandal, who was a bodyguard to >> Osama >> > > bin >> > > > > > > > Laden. Without being tortured, Jandal divulged intimate >> details >> > > and >> > > > > > > > personal histories of bin Laden's inner circle, the 100 >> pages of >> > > > > > > > documents appear to show. >> > >> > > > > > > > The hearing took place amid an escalating political fracas >> over >> > > what >> > > > > > > > congressional Democrats knew at the time about the CIA >> program. >> > > > > > > > Republicans say that documents call into question House >> Speaker >> > > Nancy >> > > > > > > > Pelosi's contention that she wasn't briefed about >> waterboarding. >> > >> > > > > > > > Zelikow called the CIA program "a collective failure, in >> which a >> > > > > > > > number of officials and members of Congress (and staffers), >> of >> > > both >> > > > > > > > parties, played a part." >> > >> > > > > > > > Zelikow wrote a classified February 2006 memo challenging >> the >> > > legal >> > > > > > > > reasoning of the Justice Department's Office of Legal >> Counsel. >> > > The >> > > > > > > > White House responded by ordering copies of the memo >> destroyed, >> > > but >> > > > > > > > Zelikow said his six-page document has been retrieved from >> State >> > > > > > > > Department files and is undergoing declassification review. >> > >> > >http://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics/AP/v-print/story/1047093.html >> > >> > > > > > > > The Senate Judiciary Committee hearing: >> > > >> http://judiciary.senate.gov/hearings/hearing.cfm?id=3842-Hidequotedtext - >> > >> > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - >> > >> > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - >> > >> > > > - Show quoted text - >> > >> > -- >> > Mark M. Kahle, �,www.filacoffee.com- Hide quoted text - >> > >> > - Show quoted text - >> >> -- >> Mark M. Kahle, , >> www.filacoffee.com >> >> >> >> --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups. For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum * Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/ * It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls. * Read the latest breaking news, and more. -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
