My recollection is that he did, during the Gulf war during the early 1990s.




On Fri, May 15, 2009 at 7:23 PM, Mark <[email protected]> wrote:

> Saddam NEVER lobbed a missle into Israel. As to rewarding suicide bombers
> families he or any one else had that opportunity and was not alone in aid to
> a "martyrs" family.... it was a political ploy to garner support from other
> Moslem factions (substitute nouns and it happens all the time in the *US)
> *it is NOT a crime in any nation.
>
>   On Fri, May 15, 2009 at 5:17 PM, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>
>> Saddam was lobbing missles at Israel and paying suicide bomber
>> families $25,000. Jordan was on the side of Iraq. The Saudis were
>> throwing sell-your- gold and support the terrorists bingo parties.
>>
>> On May 15, 5:38�pm, Mark <[email protected]> wrote:
>> > They have no reason to read YOUR constitution as it only effects US soil
>> and
>> > those on it. Outside your borders it is "just a piece of paper".
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>  > On Fri, May 15, 2009 at 4:18 PM, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >
>> > > I think you measure an enemy and doubt terrorist Muslims are reading
>> > > our Constitution. The Germans and Japanese were considered modern
>> > > industrial nations with strong cultures. It didn't prevent us from
>> > > pounding them into ashes.
>> >
>> > > On May 15, 4:40 pm, THE ANNOINTED ONE <[email protected]> wrote:
>> > > > So, the ACLU, whose only purpose is to see the constitution enforced
>> > > > as written is BS. I guess the constitution is "just a piece of
>> > > > paper"........
>> >
>> > > > On May 14, 6:31 am, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >
>> > > > > I doubt al queda debates the bs of the ACLU.
>> >
>> > > > > On May 14, 7:26 am, VT VirtualTruth <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > > > > > Nothing yet from the Bush torture apologists?
>> >
>> > > > > > I guess Rush hasn't told them what to think yet.....
>> >
>> > > > > > On May 13, 9:03 pm, VT VirtualTruth <[email protected]>
>> > > wrote:
>> >
>> > > > > > > The excuses, the rationalizations, the lies all of this to
>> avoid
>> > > > > > > war crime trials for torture, torture that a SUCCESSFUL
>> interogator
>> > > > > > > swore under oath, did not work!
>> >
>> > > > > > > OH and the CIA interogator who said that water boarding DID
>> > > > > > > break Abu Zubaydah in seconds, recanted his statement, it
>> appears
>> > > > > > > not only wasn't he present but he was mistaken about what he
>> was
>> > > > > > > told!
>> >
>> > > > > > > On May 13, 8:09 pm, VT Sean Lewis <[email protected]>
>> > > wrote:
>> >
>> > > > > > > > Harsh interrogation techniques ineffective,' former FBI
>> agent
>> > > > > > > > testifies
>> >
>> > > > > > > > By WARREN P. STROBEL
>> > > > > > > > McClatchy Newspapers
>> > > > > > > > A former FBI special agent who interrogated senior al-Qaida
>> > > captives
>> > > > > > > > told the Senate Judiciary Committee on Wednesday that harsh
>> > > > > > > > interrogation techniques are "ineffective, slow and
>> unreliable,"
>> > > and
>> > > > > > > > disputed claims by former Vice President Dick Cheney and
>> others
>> > > that
>> > > > > > > > they helped uncover major terrorist plots.
>> >
>> > > > > > > > Ali Soufan, a veteran FBI investigator, said that CIA
>> officials
>> > > and
>> > > > > > > > others responsible for the extreme measures inflated the
>> > > program's
>> > > > > > > > successes and downplayed the consequences of physical abuse.
>> >
>> > > > > > > > "The situation was, and remains, too risky to allow someone
>> to
>> > > > > > > > experiment with amateurish, Hollywood-style interrogation
>> methods
>> > > that
>> > > > > > > > in reality taints sources, risks outcomes, ignores the end
>> game
>> > > and
>> > > > > > > > diminishes our moral high ground," Soufan said.
>> >
>> > > > > > > > "It was one of the worst and most harmful decisions made in
>> our
>> > > > > > > > efforts against al-Qaida," he said.
>> >
>> > > > > > > > Former State Department official Philip Zelikow, who in 2005
>> was
>> > > > > > > > Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice's point man in a battle
>> to
>> > > > > > > > overhaul the Bush administration's detention and
>> interrogation
>> > > > > > > > policies, joined Soufan in criticizing the use of techniques
>> such
>> > > as
>> > > > > > > > waterboarding, a form of simulated drowning that's widely
>> > > considered
>> > > > > > > > torture.
>> >
>> > > > > > > > Zelikow said the U.S. could combat terrorism without
>> resorting to
>> > > > > > > > extreme methods.
>> >
>> > > > > > > > "Others may disagree," he said. "The government, and the
>> country,
>> > > > > > > > needs to decide whether they are right. If they are right,
>> our
>> > > laws
>> > > > > > > > must change, and our country must change. I think they are
>> > > wrong."
>> >
>> > > > > > > > Cheney has argued that the now-defunct CIA program, which
>> > > included a
>> > > > > > > > global network of secret prisons, produced valuable
>> intelligence
>> > > that
>> > > > > > > > thwarted terror attacks and saved American lives.
>> >
>> > > > > > > > Cheney, who's scheduled to give a major speech on the
>> subject
>> > > next
>> > > > > > > > week at the American Enterprise Institute, a conservative
>> > > Washington
>> > > > > > > > policy organization, has called for the release of two
>> classified
>> > > CIA
>> > > > > > > > memos that he says detail the program's successes.
>> >
>> > > > > > > > However, Sen. Russ Feingold, D-Wis., a member of the Senate
>> > > Judiciary
>> > > > > > > > and Intelligence committees, said he's seen the two
>> documents and
>> > > they
>> > > > > > > > don't prove Cheney's case.
>> >
>> > > > > > > > Soufan's testimony apparently was the first public appraisal
>> by a
>> > > > > > > > senior U.S. government interrogator who dealt directly with
>> > > suspected
>> > > > > > > > terrorists in CIA custody.
>> >
>> > > > > > > > It came a month after President Barack Obama released four
>> > > Bush-era
>> > > > > > > > Justice Department legal memos justifying methods that
>> included
>> > > > > > > > confinement boxes, sleep deprivation and slamming detainees
>> into
>> > > > > > > > walls. That reopened the debate over whether top Bush
>> officials
>> > > should
>> > > > > > > > be investigated and prosecuted for their actions.
>> >
>> > > > > > > > Adding to the drama, Soufan testified from behind a screen
>> where
>> > > the
>> > > > > > > > senators, but not the audience, could see him. Since at
>> least one
>> > > > > > > > photo of Soufan is available on the Internet, the reason for
>> the
>> > > > > > > > security measures wasn't readily apparent.
>> >
>> > > > > > > > Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., who's also an Air Force Reserve
>> > > lawyer,
>> > > > > > > > said the Bush administration erred in its reading of the law
>> but
>> > > > > > > > argued that harsh interrogation techniques sometimes produce
>> > > valuable
>> > > > > > > > information.
>> >
>> > > > > > > > He challenged Soufan to dispute that.
>> >
>> > > > > > > > "I can only speak to my experience," the former FBI agent
>> > > replied.
>> >
>> > > > > > > > "That's the point, isn't it?" Graham retorted.
>> >
>> > > > > > > > Soufan was a lead FBI interrogator of Abu Zubaydah, one of
>> the
>> > > first
>> > > > > > > > major al-Qaida figures to be captured after the Sept. 11,
>> 2001,
>> > > > > > > > terrorist attacks. The initial interrogation of Zubaydah,
>> using
>> > > the
>> > > > > > > > bureau's traditional, rapport-building techniques, yielded
>> > > valuable
>> > > > > > > > intelligence, including the role of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed
>> as the
>> > > > > > > > mastermind of the Sept. 11 attacks, he said.
>> >
>> > > > > > > > Then-CIA director George Tenet congratulated the
>> interrogators -
>> > > until
>> > > > > > > > he learned that they were from the FBI, not the CIA, Soufan
>> said.
>> > > A
>> > > > > > > > team from the CIA's Counterterrorism Center that included a
>> > > government
>> > > > > > > > contractor quickly replaced him and his colleagues. They
>> > > introduced
>> > > > > > > > harsh interrogation techniques, and Zubaydah's cooperation
>> > > stopped,
>> > > > > > > > Soufan said.
>> >
>> > > > > > > > After complaints from officials in Washington about the
>> dried-up
>> > > > > > > > intelligence flow, Soufan and colleagues reverted to the
>> > > traditional
>> > > > > > > > approach, and Zubaydah began talking again.
>> >
>> > > > > > > > To bolster the Democrats' case against torture, Sen. Sheldon
>> > > > > > > > Whitehouse, D-R.I., released summaries of Soufan's
>> interrogations
>> > > of
>> > > > > > > > another al-Qaida figure, Abu Jandal, who was a bodyguard to
>> Osama
>> > > bin
>> > > > > > > > Laden. Without being tortured, Jandal divulged intimate
>> details
>> > > and
>> > > > > > > > personal histories of bin Laden's inner circle, the 100
>> pages of
>> > > > > > > > documents appear to show.
>> >
>> > > > > > > > The hearing took place amid an escalating political fracas
>> over
>> > > what
>> > > > > > > > congressional Democrats knew at the time about the CIA
>> program.
>> > > > > > > > Republicans say that documents call into question House
>> Speaker
>> > > Nancy
>> > > > > > > > Pelosi's contention that she wasn't briefed about
>> waterboarding.
>> >
>> > > > > > > > Zelikow called the CIA program "a collective failure, in
>> which a
>> > > > > > > > number of officials and members of Congress (and staffers),
>> of
>> > > both
>> > > > > > > > parties, played a part."
>> >
>> > > > > > > > Zelikow wrote a classified February 2006 memo challenging
>> the
>> > > legal
>> > > > > > > > reasoning of the Justice Department's Office of Legal
>> Counsel.
>> > > The
>> > > > > > > > White House responded by ordering copies of the memo
>> destroyed,
>> > > but
>> > > > > > > > Zelikow said his six-page document has been retrieved from
>> State
>> > > > > > > > Department files and is undergoing declassification review.
>> >
>> > >http://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics/AP/v-print/story/1047093.html
>> >
>> > > > > > > > The Senate Judiciary Committee hearing:
>> > >
>> http://judiciary.senate.gov/hearings/hearing.cfm?id=3842-Hidequotedtext -
>> >
>> > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>> >
>> > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>> >
>> > > > - Show quoted text -
>> >
>> > --
>> > Mark M. Kahle, �,www.filacoffee.com- Hide quoted text -
>>    >
>> > - Show quoted text -
>>
>> --
>> Mark M. Kahle,  ,
>> www.filacoffee.com
>>
>> >>
>>

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