rigs, Just don't recall.
On May 15, 7:18 pm, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > I think some died of heart attacks, > > On May 15, 7:09 pm, Hollywood <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > KIT, > > > Yeah, I think SH did manage to hit Isreal with a couple of SCUDS > > during Gulf War I. Some damage, don't recall any killed. > > What a piece of shit THAT weapon turned out to be. > > > On May 15, 6:43 pm, Keith In Tampa <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > My recollection is that he did, during the Gulf war during the early > > > 1990s. > > > > On Fri, May 15, 2009 at 7:23 PM, Mark <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Saddam NEVER lobbed a missle into Israel. As to rewarding suicide > > > > bombers > > > > families he or any one else had that opportunity and was not alone in > > > > aid to > > > > a "martyrs" family.... it was a political ploy to garner support from > > > > other > > > > Moslem factions (substitute nouns and it happens all the time in the > > > > *US) > > > > *it is NOT a crime in any nation. > > > > > On Fri, May 15, 2009 at 5:17 PM, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > >> Saddam was lobbing missles at Israel and paying suicide bomber > > > >> families $25,000. Jordan was on the side of Iraq. The Saudis were > > > >> throwing sell-your- gold and support the terrorists bingo parties. > > > > >> On May 15, 5:38 pm, Mark <[email protected]> wrote: > > > >> > They have no reason to read YOUR constitution as it only effects US > > > >> > soil > > > >> and > > > >> > those on it. Outside your borders it is "just a piece of paper". > > > > >> > On Fri, May 15, 2009 at 4:18 PM, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > >> > > I think you measure an enemy and doubt terrorist Muslims are > > > >> > > reading > > > >> > > our Constitution. The Germans and Japanese were considered modern > > > >> > > industrial nations with strong cultures. It didn't prevent us from > > > >> > > pounding them into ashes. > > > > >> > > On May 15, 4:40 pm, THE ANNOINTED ONE <[email protected]> wrote: > > > >> > > > So, the ACLU, whose only purpose is to see the constitution > > > >> > > > enforced > > > >> > > > as written is BS. I guess the constitution is "just a piece of > > > >> > > > paper"........ > > > > >> > > > On May 14, 6:31 am, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > >> > > > > I doubt al queda debates the bs of the ACLU. > > > > >> > > > > On May 14, 7:26 am, VT VirtualTruth <[email protected]> > > > >> wrote: > > > > >> > > > > > Nothing yet from the Bush torture apologists? > > > > >> > > > > > I guess Rush hasn't told them what to think yet..... > > > > >> > > > > > On May 13, 9:03 pm, VT VirtualTruth > > > >> > > > > > <[email protected]> > > > >> > > wrote: > > > > >> > > > > > > The excuses, the rationalizations, the lies all of this to > > > >> avoid > > > >> > > > > > > war crime trials for torture, torture that a SUCCESSFUL > > > >> interogator > > > >> > > > > > > swore under oath, did not work! > > > > >> > > > > > > OH and the CIA interogator who said that water boarding DID > > > >> > > > > > > break Abu Zubaydah in seconds, recanted his statement, it > > > >> appears > > > >> > > > > > > not only wasn't he present but he was mistaken about what > > > >> > > > > > > he > > > >> was > > > >> > > > > > > told! > > > > >> > > > > > > On May 13, 8:09 pm, VT Sean Lewis > > > >> > > > > > > <[email protected]> > > > >> > > wrote: > > > > >> > > > > > > > Harsh interrogation techniques ineffective,' former FBI > > > >> agent > > > >> > > > > > > > testifies > > > > >> > > > > > > > By WARREN P. STROBEL > > > >> > > > > > > > McClatchy Newspapers > > > >> > > > > > > > A former FBI special agent who interrogated senior > > > >> > > > > > > > al-Qaida > > > >> > > captives > > > >> > > > > > > > told the Senate Judiciary Committee on Wednesday that > > > >> > > > > > > > harsh > > > >> > > > > > > > interrogation techniques are "ineffective, slow and > > > >> unreliable," > > > >> > > and > > > >> > > > > > > > disputed claims by former Vice President Dick Cheney and > > > >> others > > > >> > > that > > > >> > > > > > > > they helped uncover major terrorist plots. > > > > >> > > > > > > > Ali Soufan, a veteran FBI investigator, said that CIA > > > >> officials > > > >> > > and > > > >> > > > > > > > others responsible for the extreme measures inflated the > > > >> > > program's > > > >> > > > > > > > successes and downplayed the consequences of physical > > > >> > > > > > > > abuse. > > > > >> > > > > > > > "The situation was, and remains, too risky to allow > > > >> > > > > > > > someone > > > >> to > > > >> > > > > > > > experiment with amateurish, Hollywood-style interrogation > > > >> methods > > > >> > > that > > > >> > > > > > > > in reality taints sources, risks outcomes, ignores the > > > >> > > > > > > > end > > > >> game > > > >> > > and > > > >> > > > > > > > diminishes our moral high ground," Soufan said. > > > > >> > > > > > > > "It was one of the worst and most harmful decisions made > > > >> > > > > > > > in > > > >> our > > > >> > > > > > > > efforts against al-Qaida," he said. > > > > >> > > > > > > > Former State Department official Philip Zelikow, who in > > > >> > > > > > > > 2005 > > > >> was > > > >> > > > > > > > Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice's point man in a > > > >> > > > > > > > battle > > > >> to > > > >> > > > > > > > overhaul the Bush administration's detention and > > > >> interrogation > > > >> > > > > > > > policies, joined Soufan in criticizing the use of > > > >> > > > > > > > techniques > > > >> such > > > >> > > as > > > >> > > > > > > > waterboarding, a form of simulated drowning that's widely > > > >> > > considered > > > >> > > > > > > > torture. > > > > >> > > > > > > > Zelikow said the U.S. could combat terrorism without > > > >> resorting to > > > >> > > > > > > > extreme methods. > > > > >> > > > > > > > "Others may disagree," he said. "The government, and the > > > >> country, > > > >> > > > > > > > needs to decide whether they are right. If they are > > > >> > > > > > > > right, > > > >> our > > > >> > > laws > > > >> > > > > > > > must change, and our country must change. I think they > > > >> > > > > > > > are > > > >> > > wrong." > > > > >> > > > > > > > Cheney has argued that the now-defunct CIA program, which > > > >> > > included a > > > >> > > > > > > > global network of secret prisons, produced valuable > > > >> intelligence > > > >> > > that > > > >> > > > > > > > thwarted terror attacks and saved American lives. > > > > >> > > > > > > > Cheney, who's scheduled to give a major speech on the > > > >> subject > > > >> > > next > > > >> > > > > > > > week at the American Enterprise Institute, a conservative > > > >> > > Washington > > > >> > > > > > > > policy organization, has called for the release of two > > > >> classified > > > >> > > CIA > > > >> > > > > > > > memos that he says detail the program's successes. > > > > >> > > > > > > > However, Sen. Russ Feingold, D-Wis., a member of the > > > >> > > > > > > > Senate > > > >> > > Judiciary > > > >> > > > > > > > and Intelligence committees, said he's seen the two > > > >> documents and > > > >> > > they > > > >> > > > > > > > don't prove Cheney's case. > > > > >> > > > > > > > Soufan's testimony apparently was the first public > > > >> > > > > > > > appraisal > > > >> by a > > > >> > > > > > > > senior U.S. government interrogator who dealt directly > > > >> > > > > > > > with > > > >> > > suspected > > > >> > > > > > > > terrorists in CIA custody. > > > > >> > > > > > > > It came a month after President Barack Obama released > > > >> > > > > > > > four > > > >> > > Bush-era > > > >> > > > > > > > Justice Department legal memos justifying methods that > > > >> included > > > >> > > > > > > > confinement boxes, sleep deprivation and slamming > > > >> > > > > > > > detainees > > > >> into > > > >> > > > > > > > walls. That reopened the debate over whether top Bush > > > >> officials > > > >> > > should > > > >> > > > > > > > be investigated and prosecuted for their actions. > > > > >> > > > > > > > Adding to the drama, Soufan testified from behind a > > > >> > > > > > > > screen > > > >> where > > > >> > > the > > > >> > > > > > > > senators, but not the audience, could see him. Since at > > > >> least one > > > >> > > > > > > > photo of Soufan is available on the Internet, the reason > > > >> > > > > > > > for > > > >> the > > > >> > > > > > > > security measures wasn't readily apparent. > > > > >> > > > > > > > Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., who's also an Air Force > > > >> > > > > > > > Reserve > > > >> > > lawyer, > > > >> > > > > > > > said the Bush administration erred in its reading of the > > > >> > > > > > > > law > > > >> but > > > >> > > > > > > > argued that harsh interrogation techniques sometimes > > > >> > > > > > > > produce > > > >> > > valuable > > > >> > > > > > > > information. > > > > >> > > > > > > > He challenged Soufan to dispute that. > > > > >> > > > > > > > "I can only speak to my experience," the former FBI agent > > > >> > > replied. > > > > >> > > > > > > > "That's the point, isn't it?" Graham retorted. > > > > >> > > > > > > > Soufan was a lead FBI interrogator of Abu Zubaydah, one > > > >> > > > > > > > of > > > >> the > > > >> > > first > > > >> > > > > > > > major al-Qaida figures to be captured after the Sept. 11, > > > >> 2001, > > > >> > > > > > > > terrorist attacks. The initial interrogation of Zubaydah, > > > >> using > > > >> > > the > > > >> > > > > > > > bureau's traditional, rapport-building techniques, > > > >> > > > > > > > yielded > > > >> > > valuable > > > >> > > > > > > > intelligence, including the role of Khalid Sheikh > > > >> > > > > > > > Mohammed > > > >> as the > > > >> > > > > > > > mastermind of the Sept. 11 attacks, he said. > > > > >> > > > > > > > Then-CIA director George Tenet congratulated the > > > >> interrogators - > > > >> > > until > > > >> > > > > > > > he learned that they were from the FBI, not the CIA, > > > >> > > > > > > > Soufan > > > >> said. > > > >> > > A > > > >> > > > > > > > team from the CIA's Counterterrorism Center that > > > >> > > > > > > > included a > > > >> > > government > > > >> > > > > > > > contractor quickly replaced him and his colleagues. They > > > >> > > introduced > > > >> > > > > > > > harsh interrogation techniques, and Zubaydah's > > > >> > > > > > > > cooperation > > > >> > > stopped, > > > >> > > > > > > > Soufan said. > > > > >> > > > > > > > After complaints from officials in Washington about the > > > >> dried-up > > > >> > > > > > > > intelligence flow, Soufan and colleagues reverted to the > > > >> > > traditional > > > >> > > > > > > > approach, and Zubaydah began talking again. > > > > >> > > > > > > > To bolster the Democrats' case against torture, Sen. > > > >> > > > > > > > Sheldon > > > >> > > > > > > > Whitehouse, D-R.I., released summaries of Soufan's > > > >> interrogations > > > >> > > of > > ... > > read more »- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups. 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