KIT, Yeah, I think SH did manage to hit Isreal with a couple of SCUDS during Gulf War I. Some damage, don't recall any killed. What a piece of shit THAT weapon turned out to be.
On May 15, 6:43 pm, Keith In Tampa <[email protected]> wrote: > My recollection is that he did, during the Gulf war during the early 1990s. > > > > On Fri, May 15, 2009 at 7:23 PM, Mark <[email protected]> wrote: > > Saddam NEVER lobbed a missle into Israel. As to rewarding suicide bombers > > families he or any one else had that opportunity and was not alone in aid to > > a "martyrs" family.... it was a political ploy to garner support from other > > Moslem factions (substitute nouns and it happens all the time in the *US) > > *it is NOT a crime in any nation. > > > On Fri, May 15, 2009 at 5:17 PM, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > > >> Saddam was lobbing missles at Israel and paying suicide bomber > >> families $25,000. Jordan was on the side of Iraq. The Saudis were > >> throwing sell-your- gold and support the terrorists bingo parties. > > >> On May 15, 5:38 pm, Mark <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > They have no reason to read YOUR constitution as it only effects US soil > >> and > >> > those on it. Outside your borders it is "just a piece of paper". > > >> > On Fri, May 15, 2009 at 4:18 PM, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > > >> > > I think you measure an enemy and doubt terrorist Muslims are reading > >> > > our Constitution. The Germans and Japanese were considered modern > >> > > industrial nations with strong cultures. It didn't prevent us from > >> > > pounding them into ashes. > > >> > > On May 15, 4:40 pm, THE ANNOINTED ONE <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > > > So, the ACLU, whose only purpose is to see the constitution enforced > >> > > > as written is BS. I guess the constitution is "just a piece of > >> > > > paper"........ > > >> > > > On May 14, 6:31 am, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > > >> > > > > I doubt al queda debates the bs of the ACLU. > > >> > > > > On May 14, 7:26 am, VT VirtualTruth <[email protected]> > >> wrote: > > >> > > > > > Nothing yet from the Bush torture apologists? > > >> > > > > > I guess Rush hasn't told them what to think yet..... > > >> > > > > > On May 13, 9:03 pm, VT VirtualTruth <[email protected]> > >> > > wrote: > > >> > > > > > > The excuses, the rationalizations, the lies all of this to > >> avoid > >> > > > > > > war crime trials for torture, torture that a SUCCESSFUL > >> interogator > >> > > > > > > swore under oath, did not work! > > >> > > > > > > OH and the CIA interogator who said that water boarding DID > >> > > > > > > break Abu Zubaydah in seconds, recanted his statement, it > >> appears > >> > > > > > > not only wasn't he present but he was mistaken about what he > >> was > >> > > > > > > told! > > >> > > > > > > On May 13, 8:09 pm, VT Sean Lewis <[email protected]> > >> > > wrote: > > >> > > > > > > > Harsh interrogation techniques ineffective,' former FBI > >> agent > >> > > > > > > > testifies > > >> > > > > > > > By WARREN P. STROBEL > >> > > > > > > > McClatchy Newspapers > >> > > > > > > > A former FBI special agent who interrogated senior al-Qaida > >> > > captives > >> > > > > > > > told the Senate Judiciary Committee on Wednesday that harsh > >> > > > > > > > interrogation techniques are "ineffective, slow and > >> unreliable," > >> > > and > >> > > > > > > > disputed claims by former Vice President Dick Cheney and > >> others > >> > > that > >> > > > > > > > they helped uncover major terrorist plots. > > >> > > > > > > > Ali Soufan, a veteran FBI investigator, said that CIA > >> officials > >> > > and > >> > > > > > > > others responsible for the extreme measures inflated the > >> > > program's > >> > > > > > > > successes and downplayed the consequences of physical abuse. > > >> > > > > > > > "The situation was, and remains, too risky to allow someone > >> to > >> > > > > > > > experiment with amateurish, Hollywood-style interrogation > >> methods > >> > > that > >> > > > > > > > in reality taints sources, risks outcomes, ignores the end > >> game > >> > > and > >> > > > > > > > diminishes our moral high ground," Soufan said. > > >> > > > > > > > "It was one of the worst and most harmful decisions made in > >> our > >> > > > > > > > efforts against al-Qaida," he said. > > >> > > > > > > > Former State Department official Philip Zelikow, who in 2005 > >> was > >> > > > > > > > Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice's point man in a battle > >> to > >> > > > > > > > overhaul the Bush administration's detention and > >> interrogation > >> > > > > > > > policies, joined Soufan in criticizing the use of techniques > >> such > >> > > as > >> > > > > > > > waterboarding, a form of simulated drowning that's widely > >> > > considered > >> > > > > > > > torture. > > >> > > > > > > > Zelikow said the U.S. could combat terrorism without > >> resorting to > >> > > > > > > > extreme methods. > > >> > > > > > > > "Others may disagree," he said. "The government, and the > >> country, > >> > > > > > > > needs to decide whether they are right. If they are right, > >> our > >> > > laws > >> > > > > > > > must change, and our country must change. I think they are > >> > > wrong." > > >> > > > > > > > Cheney has argued that the now-defunct CIA program, which > >> > > included a > >> > > > > > > > global network of secret prisons, produced valuable > >> intelligence > >> > > that > >> > > > > > > > thwarted terror attacks and saved American lives. > > >> > > > > > > > Cheney, who's scheduled to give a major speech on the > >> subject > >> > > next > >> > > > > > > > week at the American Enterprise Institute, a conservative > >> > > Washington > >> > > > > > > > policy organization, has called for the release of two > >> classified > >> > > CIA > >> > > > > > > > memos that he says detail the program's successes. > > >> > > > > > > > However, Sen. Russ Feingold, D-Wis., a member of the Senate > >> > > Judiciary > >> > > > > > > > and Intelligence committees, said he's seen the two > >> documents and > >> > > they > >> > > > > > > > don't prove Cheney's case. > > >> > > > > > > > Soufan's testimony apparently was the first public appraisal > >> by a > >> > > > > > > > senior U.S. government interrogator who dealt directly with > >> > > suspected > >> > > > > > > > terrorists in CIA custody. > > >> > > > > > > > It came a month after President Barack Obama released four > >> > > Bush-era > >> > > > > > > > Justice Department legal memos justifying methods that > >> included > >> > > > > > > > confinement boxes, sleep deprivation and slamming detainees > >> into > >> > > > > > > > walls. That reopened the debate over whether top Bush > >> officials > >> > > should > >> > > > > > > > be investigated and prosecuted for their actions. > > >> > > > > > > > Adding to the drama, Soufan testified from behind a screen > >> where > >> > > the > >> > > > > > > > senators, but not the audience, could see him. Since at > >> least one > >> > > > > > > > photo of Soufan is available on the Internet, the reason for > >> the > >> > > > > > > > security measures wasn't readily apparent. > > >> > > > > > > > Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., who's also an Air Force Reserve > >> > > lawyer, > >> > > > > > > > said the Bush administration erred in its reading of the law > >> but > >> > > > > > > > argued that harsh interrogation techniques sometimes produce > >> > > valuable > >> > > > > > > > information. > > >> > > > > > > > He challenged Soufan to dispute that. > > >> > > > > > > > "I can only speak to my experience," the former FBI agent > >> > > replied. > > >> > > > > > > > "That's the point, isn't it?" Graham retorted. > > >> > > > > > > > Soufan was a lead FBI interrogator of Abu Zubaydah, one of > >> the > >> > > first > >> > > > > > > > major al-Qaida figures to be captured after the Sept. 11, > >> 2001, > >> > > > > > > > terrorist attacks. The initial interrogation of Zubaydah, > >> using > >> > > the > >> > > > > > > > bureau's traditional, rapport-building techniques, yielded > >> > > valuable > >> > > > > > > > intelligence, including the role of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed > >> as the > >> > > > > > > > mastermind of the Sept. 11 attacks, he said. > > >> > > > > > > > Then-CIA director George Tenet congratulated the > >> interrogators - > >> > > until > >> > > > > > > > he learned that they were from the FBI, not the CIA, Soufan > >> said. > >> > > A > >> > > > > > > > team from the CIA's Counterterrorism Center that included a > >> > > government > >> > > > > > > > contractor quickly replaced him and his colleagues. They > >> > > introduced > >> > > > > > > > harsh interrogation techniques, and Zubaydah's cooperation > >> > > stopped, > >> > > > > > > > Soufan said. > > >> > > > > > > > After complaints from officials in Washington about the > >> dried-up > >> > > > > > > > intelligence flow, Soufan and colleagues reverted to the > >> > > traditional > >> > > > > > > > approach, and Zubaydah began talking again. > > >> > > > > > > > To bolster the Democrats' case against torture, Sen. Sheldon > >> > > > > > > > Whitehouse, D-R.I., released summaries of Soufan's > >> interrogations > >> > > of > >> > > > > > > > another al-Qaida figure, Abu Jandal, who was a bodyguard to > >> Osama > >> > > bin > >> > > > > > > > Laden. Without being tortured, Jandal divulged intimate > >> details > >> > > and > >> > > > > > > > personal histories of bin Laden's inner circle, the 100 > >> pages of > >> > > > > > > > documents appear to show. > > >> > > > > > > > The hearing took place amid an escalating political fracas > >> over > >> > > what > >> > > > > > > > congressional Democrats knew at the time about the CIA > >> program. > >> > > > > > > > Republicans say that documents call into question House > >> Speaker > >> > > Nancy > >> > > > > > > > Pelosi's contention that she wasn't briefed about > >> waterboarding. > > >> > > > > > > > Zelikow called the CIA program "a collective failure, in > >> which a > >> > > > > > > > number of officials and members of Congress (and staffers), > >> of > >> > > both > >> > > > > > > > parties, played a part." > > >> > > > > > > > Zelikow wrote a classified February 2006 memo challenging > >> the > > ... > > read more »- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups. 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