I think some died of heart attacks, On May 15, 7:09�pm, Hollywood <[email protected]> wrote: > KIT, > > Yeah, I think SH did manage to hit Isreal with a couple of SCUDS > during Gulf War I. Some damage, don't recall any killed. > What a piece of shit THAT weapon turned out to be. > > On May 15, 6:43�pm, Keith In Tampa <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > My recollection is that he did, during the Gulf war during the early 1990s. > > > On Fri, May 15, 2009 at 7:23 PM, Mark <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Saddam NEVER lobbed a missle into Israel. As to rewarding suicide bombers > > > families he or any one else had that opportunity and was not alone in aid > > > to > > > a "martyrs" family.... it was a political ploy to garner support from > > > other > > > Moslem factions (substitute nouns and it happens all the time in the *US) > > > *it is NOT a crime in any nation. > > > > � On Fri, May 15, 2009 at 5:17 PM, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > >> Saddam was lobbing missles at Israel and paying suicide bomber > > >> families $25,000. Jordan was on the side of Iraq. The Saudis were > > >> throwing sell-your- gold and support the terrorists bingo parties. > > > >> On May 15, 5:38 pm, Mark <[email protected]> wrote: > > >> > They have no reason to read YOUR constitution as it only effects US > > >> > soil > > >> and > > >> > those on it. Outside your borders it is "just a piece of paper". > > > >> �> On Fri, May 15, 2009 at 4:18 PM, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > >> > > I think you measure an enemy and doubt terrorist Muslims are reading > > >> > > our Constitution. The Germans and Japanese were considered modern > > >> > > industrial nations with strong cultures. It didn't prevent us from > > >> > > pounding them into ashes. > > > >> > > On May 15, 4:40 pm, THE ANNOINTED ONE <[email protected]> wrote: > > >> > > > So, the ACLU, whose only purpose is to see the constitution > > >> > > > enforced > > >> > > > as written is BS. I guess the constitution is "just a piece of > > >> > > > paper"........ > > > >> > > > On May 14, 6:31 am, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > >> > > > > I doubt al queda debates the bs of the ACLU. > > > >> > > > > On May 14, 7:26 am, VT VirtualTruth <[email protected]> > > >> wrote: > > > >> > > > > > Nothing yet from the Bush torture apologists? > > > >> > > > > > I guess Rush hasn't told them what to think yet..... > > > >> > > > > > On May 13, 9:03 pm, VT VirtualTruth <[email protected]> > > >> > > wrote: > > > >> > > > > > > The excuses, the rationalizations, the lies all of this to > > >> avoid > > >> > > > > > > war crime trials for torture, torture that a SUCCESSFUL > > >> interogator > > >> > > > > > > swore under oath, did not work! > > > >> > > > > > > OH and the CIA interogator who said that water boarding DID > > >> > > > > > > break Abu Zubaydah in seconds, recanted his statement, it > > >> appears > > >> > > > > > > not only wasn't he present but he was mistaken about what he > > >> was > > >> > > > > > > told! > > > >> > > > > > > On May 13, 8:09 pm, VT Sean Lewis <[email protected]> > > >> > > wrote: > > > >> > > > > > > > Harsh interrogation techniques ineffective,' former FBI > > >> agent > > >> > > > > > > > testifies > > > >> > > > > > > > By WARREN P. STROBEL > > >> > > > > > > > McClatchy Newspapers > > >> > > > > > > > A former FBI special agent who interrogated senior al-Qaida > > >> > > captives > > >> > > > > > > > told the Senate Judiciary Committee on Wednesday that harsh > > >> > > > > > > > interrogation techniques are "ineffective, slow and > > >> unreliable," > > >> > > and > > >> > > > > > > > disputed claims by former Vice President Dick Cheney and > > >> others > > >> > > that > > >> > > > > > > > they helped uncover major terrorist plots. > > > >> > > > > > > > Ali Soufan, a veteran FBI investigator, said that CIA > > >> officials > > >> > > and > > >> > > > > > > > others responsible for the extreme measures inflated the > > >> > > program's > > >> > > > > > > > successes and downplayed the consequences of physical > > >> > > > > > > > abuse. > > > >> > > > > > > > "The situation was, and remains, too risky to allow someone > > >> to > > >> > > > > > > > experiment with amateurish, Hollywood-style interrogation > > >> methods > > >> > > that > > >> > > > > > > > in reality taints sources, risks outcomes, ignores the end > > >> game > > >> > > and > > >> > > > > > > > diminishes our moral high ground," Soufan said. > > > >> > > > > > > > "It was one of the worst and most harmful decisions made in > > >> our > > >> > > > > > > > efforts against al-Qaida," he said. > > > >> > > > > > > > Former State Department official Philip Zelikow, who in > > >> > > > > > > > 2005 > > >> was > > >> > > > > > > > Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice's point man in a battle > > >> to > > >> > > > > > > > overhaul the Bush administration's detention and > > >> interrogation > > >> > > > > > > > policies, joined Soufan in criticizing the use of > > >> > > > > > > > techniques > > >> such > > >> > > as > > >> > > > > > > > waterboarding, a form of simulated drowning that's widely > > >> > > considered > > >> > > > > > > > torture. > > > >> > > > > > > > Zelikow said the U.S. could combat terrorism without > > >> resorting to > > >> > > > > > > > extreme methods. > > > >> > > > > > > > "Others may disagree," he said. "The government, and the > > >> country, > > >> > > > > > > > needs to decide whether they are right. If they are right, > > >> our > > >> > > laws > > >> > > > > > > > must change, and our country must change. I think they are > > >> > > wrong." > > > >> > > > > > > > Cheney has argued that the now-defunct CIA program, which > > >> > > included a > > >> > > > > > > > global network of secret prisons, produced valuable > > >> intelligence > > >> > > that > > >> > > > > > > > thwarted terror attacks and saved American lives. > > > >> > > > > > > > Cheney, who's scheduled to give a major speech on the > > >> subject > > >> > > next > > >> > > > > > > > week at the American Enterprise Institute, a conservative > > >> > > Washington > > >> > > > > > > > policy organization, has called for the release of two > > >> classified > > >> > > CIA > > >> > > > > > > > memos that he says detail the program's successes. > > > >> > > > > > > > However, Sen. Russ Feingold, D-Wis., a member of the Senate > > >> > > Judiciary > > >> > > > > > > > and Intelligence committees, said he's seen the two > > >> documents and > > >> > > they > > >> > > > > > > > don't prove Cheney's case. > > > >> > > > > > > > Soufan's testimony apparently was the first public > > >> > > > > > > > appraisal > > >> by a > > >> > > > > > > > senior U.S. government interrogator who dealt directly with > > >> > > suspected > > >> > > > > > > > terrorists in CIA custody. > > > >> > > > > > > > It came a month after President Barack Obama released four > > >> > > Bush-era > > >> > > > > > > > Justice Department legal memos justifying methods that > > >> included > > >> > > > > > > > confinement boxes, sleep deprivation and slamming detainees > > >> into > > >> > > > > > > > walls. That reopened the debate over whether top Bush > > >> officials > > >> > > should > > >> > > > > > > > be investigated and prosecuted for their actions. > > > >> > > > > > > > Adding to the drama, Soufan testified from behind a screen > > >> where > > >> > > the > > >> > > > > > > > senators, but not the audience, could see him. Since at > > >> least one > > >> > > > > > > > photo of Soufan is available on the Internet, the reason > > >> > > > > > > > for > > >> the > > >> > > > > > > > security measures wasn't readily apparent. > > > >> > > > > > > > Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., who's also an Air Force > > >> > > > > > > > Reserve > > >> > > lawyer, > > >> > > > > > > > said the Bush administration erred in its reading of the > > >> > > > > > > > law > > >> but > > >> > > > > > > > argued that harsh interrogation techniques sometimes > > >> > > > > > > > produce > > >> > > valuable > > >> > > > > > > > information. > > > >> > > > > > > > He challenged Soufan to dispute that. > > > >> > > > > > > > "I can only speak to my experience," the former FBI agent > > >> > > replied. > > > >> > > > > > > > "That's the point, isn't it?" Graham retorted. > > > >> > > > > > > > Soufan was a lead FBI interrogator of Abu Zubaydah, one of > > >> the > > >> > > first > > >> > > > > > > > major al-Qaida figures to be captured after the Sept. 11, > > >> 2001, > > >> > > > > > > > terrorist attacks. The initial interrogation of Zubaydah, > > >> using > > >> > > the > > >> > > > > > > > bureau's traditional, rapport-building techniques, yielded > > >> > > valuable > > >> > > > > > > > intelligence, including the role of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed > > >> as the > > >> > > > > > > > mastermind of the Sept. 11 attacks, he said. > > > >> > > > > > > > Then-CIA director George Tenet congratulated the > > >> interrogators - > > >> > > until > > >> > > > > > > > he learned that they were from the FBI, not the CIA, Soufan > > >> said. > > >> > > A > > >> > > > > > > > team from the CIA's Counterterrorism Center that included a > > >> > > government > > >> > > > > > > > contractor quickly replaced him and his colleagues. They > > >> > > introduced > > >> > > > > > > > harsh interrogation techniques, and Zubaydah's cooperation > > >> > > stopped, > > >> > > > > > > > Soufan said. > > > >> > > > > > > > After complaints from officials in Washington about the > > >> dried-up > > >> > > > > > > > intelligence flow, Soufan and colleagues reverted to the > > >> > > traditional > > >> > > > > > > > approach, and Zubaydah began talking again. > > > >> > > > > > > > To bolster the Democrats' case against torture, Sen. > > >> > > > > > > > Sheldon > > >> > > > > > > > Whitehouse, D-R.I., released summaries of Soufan's > > >> interrogations > > >> > > of > > >> > > > > > > > another al-Qaida figure, Abu Jandal, who was a bodyguard to > > >> Osama > > >> > > bin > > >> > > > > > > > Laden. Without being tortured, Jandal divulged intimate > > >> details > > >> > > and > > >> > > > > > > > personal histories of bin Laden's inner circle, the 100 > > >> pages of > > >> > > > > > > > documents appear to show. > > > >> > > > > > > > The hearing took place amid an escalating political fracas > > >> over > > >> > > what > > >> > > > > > > > congressional Democrats knew at the time about the CIA > > ... > > read more �- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups. For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum
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