States don't have a right to tell non-violent people where they can travel. If someone invites them to visit they should be able to
On Sat, Jul 11, 2009 at 10:22 AM, Hollywood <[email protected]>wrote: > > bruce, > > Sure, just so long as they do it LEGALLY. > So, you really do NOT want to solve the illegal alien problem? You > WANT to allow CERTAIN people to break American immigration laws with > no significant punishment or consequences? Gee, I thought you lads > were all about law & order, personal responsibility and doing > something about unemployment. Guess not. > > On Jul 11, 8:45 am, bruce majors <[email protected]> wrote: > > People should be free to work and live where they like > > Just not to live off taxpayers > > > > On Sat, Jul 11, 2009 at 9:41 AM, Hollywood <[email protected] > >wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > bruce, > > > > > I got an idea. Why don't we simply dry up the reason they are coming > > > here illegally? They come here for jobs, to work here illegally. Send > > > govt. agents, INS or whomever to raid plants and look for illegal > > > workers. And, of course, deport those illegals but more importantly > > > provide punsihment to the people that hire them that would be > > > significant enough to stop them from ever even THINKING of doing that > > > again. Throw a few plant managers and HR managers in jail, fine them > > > significantly enough to put a stop to the illegal activity of hiring > > > illegals. What good does it do to fime a company a few bucks if they > > > are saving 10 times that amount by hiring the illegals? If i commit a > > > crime that nets me a profit of $1 million dollars and I'm caught and > > > the fine is $100,000.00 with no jail time why on earth would I NOT > > > commit that crime again, first chance I got? > > > Oh yeah, and forbid any company caught hiring illegals from even > > > bidding on any city, county, state or federal govt. contracts for at > > > least on year or so. No, maybe it would be tough to do that to every > > > homeowner that hires and illegal to cut his grass or clean his pool > > > but it would have an impact on large agricultural, manufacturers, meat > > > & poultry processors, etc. etc. Enough out of work American citizens > > > to fill those jobs. > > > > > On Jul 11, 7:53 am, bruce majors <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > *From:* Jeff Schwilk <[email protected]> > > > > *Date:* 7/10/2009 10:39:51 AM > > > > *Subject:* LA Times: The Cost of Illegal Aliens > > > > > > *FORWARD FAR AND WIDE!* > > > > > > The solution to California's budget mess is simple: Stop anchor > babies, > > > > stop taxpayer benefits to ILLEGAL aliens, and stop illegal > immigration in > > > > California! We can no longer afford open borders! > > > > > > Sign the Petition now to Save California! > > > > *www.TaxpayerRevolution.org*<http://www.TaxpayerRevolution.org> > > > > > > > http://www.latimes.com/news/la-me-illegal10-2009jul10,0,4951833.story... > > > > > > < > http://www.latimes.com/news/la-me-illegal10-2009jul10,0,4951833.story.. > > > .> > > > > > > Illegal immigrants again in the budget spotlight > > > > The economic downturn has activists pushing for a measure that would > > > limit > > > > the services Californians provide. > > > > By Anna Gorman and Teresa Watanabe > > > > July 10, 2009 > > > > As California lawmakers struggle with a budget gap that has now > grown to > > > > $26.3 billion, one of the hottest topics for many taxpayers is the > cost > > > to > > > > the state of illegal immigrants. > > > > > > The question of whether taxpayers should provide services to illegal > > > > residents< > > >http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2009/07/is-illegal-immigration-.. > .> > > > > became > > > > a major political issue in California's last deep recession, > culminating > > > in > > > > the ballot fight over Proposition 187 in 1994. That history could > repeat > > > > itself in the current downturn, as activists opposed to illegal > > > immigration > > > > have launched a campaign for an initiative that would, among other > > > things, > > > > cut off welfare payments to the U.S.-born children of illegal > immigrants. > > > > Those children are eligible for welfare benefits because they are > U.S. > > > > citizens. > > > > > > State welfare officials estimate that cutting off payments to > illegal > > > > immigrants for their U.S.-born children could save about $640 million > > > > annually if it survives legal challenges. > > > > > > California has roughly 2.7 million illegal residents, according to an > > > April > > > > 2009 report from the authoritative Pew Hispanic Center, accounting > for > > > about > > > > 7% of the state's population. State officials estimate that they add > > > between > > > > $4 billion and $6 billion in costs, primarily for prisons and jails, > > > schools > > > > and emergency rooms. Beyond those services, the illegal population > adds > > > to > > > > the overall cost of other parts of local government, from police and > fire > > > > protection to highway maintenance and libraries. > > > > > > On the other side of the ledger, illegal residents pay taxes -- sales > > > taxes > > > > on what they buy, gasoline taxes when they fuel their cars, property > > > taxes > > > > if they own homes. The total is hotly debated, although most > researchers > > > > agree that the short-term costs to state and local government are > bigger > > > > than the revenues. > > > > > > Many companies that hire illegal workers also withhold Social > Security > > > and > > > > income taxes from their paychecks, based on workers' invalid Social > > > Security > > > > numbers. That money goes mostly to the federal government, not to > > > > localities. The Social Security Administration estimates that in > 2007, > > > > illegal residents nationwide contributed a net of $12 billion to the > > > system. > > > > > > The largest costs to California's budget from its illegal residents > are > > > in > > > > three areas: > > > > > > * Education: The state has no official count of how many students are > in > > > the > > > > country illegally because school districts do not ask. But the state > > > > legislative analyst estimated, based on data from the Pew Hispanic > > > Center, > > > > that the state's 6.3 million public school students include about > 300,000 > > > > illegal residents. At an annual cost of about $7,626 each, the total > > > comes > > > > to nearly $2.3 billion. > > > > > > * Prisons: In fiscal year 2009-10, California expects to spend about > $834 > > > > million to incarcerate 19,000 illegal immigrants in the state's > prisons. > > > In > > > > Los Angeles County, illegal immigrants add between $370 million and > $550 > > > > million annually to criminal justice costs, including prosecution, > > > defense, > > > > probation and jails, according to Supervisor Mike Antonovich. > > > > > > * Healthcare: The expected state tab for healthcare in fiscal 2009-10 > is > > > > $703 million for as many as 780,000 illegal immigrants. Of that, $486 > > > > million goes to emergency services. But low-income illegal residents > are > > > > also eligible for some nonemergency health services, including > prenatal > > > and > > > > postpartum care, abortions, breast and cervical cancer treatment and > > > certain > > > > types of long-term care, such as stays in nursing homes. Most of the > > > > nonemergency care for illegal immigrants was authorized by the > > > Legislature > > > > in the 1980s. > > > > > > Much of those costs are beyond the control of state officials. The > U.S. > > > > Supreme Court ruled in 1982 that the Constitution forbids school > > > districts > > > > to turn away children who are illegal immigrants. And federal law > > > requires > > > > emergency rooms to treat everyone, regardless of citizenship. > > > > > > How serious a problem those costs are is a subject of constant > debate. > > > "It > > > > is a catastrophic hit . . . on every level of government," Antonovich > > > said. > > > > > > State Sen. Denise Moreno Ducheny (D-San Diego) who heads the Senate > > > budget > > > > committee, counters that illegal immigrants are net contributors > through > > > > their taxes and labor in farming and other industries. Cutting > services > > > to > > > > illegal residents is "penny wise and pound foolish," Ducheny said. > > > > > > The Center for Continuing Study of the California Economy, based in > Palo > > > > Alto, has analyzed research on the costs of illegal immigration. Most > > > > studies show that at least in the short term, illegal immigrants, who > > > tend > > > > to be poorer and have more children than average, use more in public > > > > services than they contribute in taxes, the center found. > > > > > > But the center's director, Stephen Levy, said some of the long-term > > > effects > > > > were positive. Educating illegal immigrant children, for instance, > helps > > > > them eventually land better jobs and higher salaries, benefiting > > > > Californians with increased tax payments and more sophisticated work > > > skills. > > > > > > Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger has said it is wrong to blame illegal > > > immigrants > > > > for the state's fiscal problems. He has, however, proposed to limit > > > welfare > > > > and nonemergency healthcare for illegal immigrants and their > families. So > > > > far, the Legislature has rejected his plans. > > > > > > One of the governor's proposals would place a five-year limit on > state > > > > welfare payments to the U.S.-citizen children of illegal immigrants. > That > > > > would affect approximately 100,000 U.S.-born children in about 48,000 > > > > California households headed by illegal immigrants, who receive a > monthly > > > > average of $472. The measure could save $77 million annually, > according > > > to > > > > the governor's office. > > > > > > Under another proposal, the governor could commute the sentences of > some > > > > illegal immigrant felons in state prisons and shift them to federal > > > > detention centers. It costs the state $48,000 to incarcerate a > prisoner, > > > and > > > > the federal government reimburses about 12 cents on the dollar, > according > > > to > > > > state finance officials. The administration estimates that commuting > > > > sentences of 8,500 felons, along with other sentencing changes, could > > > save > > > > $182 million, although other state analysts question that. > > > > > > State cuts in health services could shift costs to counties, some of > > > which > > > > have begun denying treatment to illegal immigrants to close their own > > > budget > > > > gaps. "It really is a punt," said Farra Bracht of the Legislative > > > Analyst's > > > > Office. "We just keep shoving more and more to the counties. . . . > They > > > are > > > > the providers of truly last resort." > > > > > > Many state officials have called on the federal government to > increase > > > the > > > > payments it makes to the state for costs associated with illegal > > > immigrants, > > > > because controlling the borders is a federal responsibility. So far, > > > > however, Washington lawmakers, faced with large deficits of their > own, > > > have > > > > not been willing. > > > > > > And others > > > > ... > > > > read more ยป- Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text - > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups. For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum * Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/ * It's active and moderated. 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