Yes and as we all know law and justice are identical aren't they On Sat, Jul 11, 2009 at 2:29 PM, Hollywood <[email protected]>wrote:
> > bruce, > > Yeah, they are called LAWS. Duuuuuuh..... > Ya' think the FBI would give the slightest fuck if I were to decide I > have the RIGHT to rob a bank? OR the INS if I think it's RIGHT to > ignore our immigration laws? Feel free to do what you think is right > lad, just be prepared to take the consequences if the law in this > country runs counter to what you think is right. > Guess what? Some radical Islamics think it is right and moral to > strangle their daughter for wearing a mini-skirt. Here in St. Louis we > called that murder and arrest your sorry ass. > My, my, bruce defending Islamic nut-jobs because they are only doing > what they think is right and moral. > > On Jul 11, 9:49 am, bruce majors <[email protected]> wrote: > > It's a more abstract discussion than that Holly > > You believe that what governments say is important and has something to > do > > with what is wrong or right > > > > You believe they are the source of rights > > > > You are wrong > > > > On Sat, Jul 11, 2009 at 10:47 AM, Hollywood <[email protected] > >wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > bruce, > > > > > When I visit Mexico I do it legally. It's not called a "visit" when > > > you cross a border illegally. My, my look at all the conservatives > > > defending illegal aliens and encouraging the violation of American law > > > and sovereignty. What has suddenly happened to you lads? > > > > > On Jul 11, 9:33 am, bruce majors <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > States don't have a right to tell non-violent people where they can > > > travel. > > > > If someone invites them to visit they should be able to > > > > > > On Sat, Jul 11, 2009 at 10:22 AM, Hollywood < > [email protected] > > > >wrote: > > > > > > > bruce, > > > > > > > Sure, just so long as they do it LEGALLY. > > > > > So, you really do NOT want to solve the illegal alien problem? You > > > > > WANT to allow CERTAIN people to break American immigration laws > with > > > > > no significant punishment or consequences? Gee, I thought you lads > > > > > were all about law & order, personal responsibility and doing > > > > > something about unemployment. Guess not. > > > > > > > On Jul 11, 8:45 am, bruce majors <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > People should be free to work and live where they like > > > > > > Just not to live off taxpayers > > > > > > > > On Sat, Jul 11, 2009 at 9:41 AM, Hollywood < > > > [email protected] > > > > > >wrote: > > > > > > > > > bruce, > > > > > > > > > I got an idea. Why don't we simply dry up the reason they are > > > coming > > > > > > > here illegally? They come here for jobs, to work here > illegally. > > > Send > > > > > > > govt. agents, INS or whomever to raid plants and look for > illegal > > > > > > > workers. And, of course, deport those illegals but more > importantly > > > > > > > provide punsihment to the people that hire them that would be > > > > > > > significant enough to stop them from ever even THINKING of > doing > > > that > > > > > > > again. Throw a few plant managers and HR managers in jail, fine > > > them > > > > > > > significantly enough to put a stop to the illegal activity of > > > hiring > > > > > > > illegals. What good does it do to fime a company a few bucks if > > > they > > > > > > > are saving 10 times that amount by hiring the illegals? If i > commit > > > a > > > > > > > crime that nets me a profit of $1 million dollars and I'm > caught > > > and > > > > > > > the fine is $100,000.00 with no jail time why on earth would I > NOT > > > > > > > commit that crime again, first chance I got? > > > > > > > Oh yeah, and forbid any company caught hiring illegals from > even > > > > > > > bidding on any city, county, state or federal govt. contracts > for > > > at > > > > > > > least on year or so. No, maybe it would be tough to do that to > > > every > > > > > > > homeowner that hires and illegal to cut his grass or clean his > pool > > > > > > > but it would have an impact on large agricultural, > manufacturers, > > > meat > > > > > > > & poultry processors, etc. etc. Enough out of work American > > > citizens > > > > > > > to fill those jobs. > > > > > > > > > On Jul 11, 7:53 am, bruce majors <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > > > > *From:* Jeff Schwilk <[email protected]> > > > > > > > > *Date:* 7/10/2009 10:39:51 AM > > > > > > > > *Subject:* LA Times: The Cost of Illegal Aliens > > > > > > > > > > *FORWARD FAR AND WIDE!* > > > > > > > > > > The solution to California's budget mess is simple: Stop > anchor > > > > > babies, > > > > > > > > stop taxpayer benefits to ILLEGAL aliens, and stop illegal > > > > > immigration in > > > > > > > > California! We can no longer afford open borders! > > > > > > > > > > Sign the Petition now to Save California! > > > > > > > > *www.TaxpayerRevolution.org*< > http://www.TaxpayerRevolution.org> > > > > > > > > http://www.latimes.com/news/la-me-illegal10-2009jul10,0,4951833.story. > > > .. > > > > > > > > > > < > > > > > > http://www.latimes.com/news/la-me-illegal10-2009jul10,0,4951833.story.. > > > > > > > .> > > > > > > > > > > Illegal immigrants again in the budget spotlight > > > > > > > > The economic downturn has activists pushing for a measure > that > > > would > > > > > > > limit > > > > > > > > the services Californians provide. > > > > > > > > By Anna Gorman and Teresa Watanabe > > > > > > > > July 10, 2009 > > > > > > > > As California lawmakers struggle with a budget gap that has > now > > > > > grown to > > > > > > > > $26.3 billion, one of the hottest topics for many taxpayers > is > > > the > > > > > cost > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > the state of illegal immigrants. > > > > > > > > > > The question of whether taxpayers should provide services to > > > illegal > > > > > > > > residents< > > > > >http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2009/07/is-illegal-immigration-.. > > > > > .> > > > > > > > > became > > > > > > > > a major political issue in California's last deep recession, > > > > > culminating > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > the ballot fight over Proposition 187 in 1994. That history > could > > > > > repeat > > > > > > > > itself in the current downturn, as activists opposed to > illegal > > > > > > > immigration > > > > > > > > have launched a campaign for an initiative that would, among > > > other > > > > > > > things, > > > > > > > > cut off welfare payments to the U.S.-born children of illegal > > > > > immigrants. > > > > > > > > Those children are eligible for welfare benefits because they > are > > > > > U.S. > > > > > > > > citizens. > > > > > > > > > > State welfare officials estimate that cutting off payments > to > > > > > illegal > > > > > > > > immigrants for their U.S.-born children could save about $640 > > > million > > > > > > > > annually if it survives legal challenges. > > > > > > > > > > California has roughly 2.7 million illegal residents, > according > > > to an > > > > > > > April > > > > > > > > 2009 report from the authoritative Pew Hispanic Center, > > > accounting > > > > > for > > > > > > > about > > > > > > > > 7% of the state's population. State officials estimate that > they > > > add > > > > > > > between > > > > > > > > $4 billion and $6 billion in costs, primarily for prisons and > > > jails, > > > > > > > schools > > > > > > > > and emergency rooms. Beyond those services, the illegal > > > population > > > > > adds > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > the overall cost of other parts of local government, from > police > > > and > > > > > fire > > > > > > > > protection to highway maintenance and libraries. > > > > > > > > > > On the other side of the ledger, illegal residents pay taxes > -- > > > sales > > > > > > > taxes > > > > > > > > on what they buy, gasoline taxes when they fuel their cars, > > > property > > > > > > > taxes > > > > > > > > if they own homes. The total is hotly debated, although most > > > > > researchers > > > > > > > > agree that the short-term costs to state and local government > are > > > > > bigger > > > > > > > > than the revenues. > > > > > > > > > > Many companies that hire illegal workers also withhold Social > > > > > Security > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > income taxes from their paychecks, based on workers' invalid > > > Social > > > > > > > Security > > > > > > > > numbers. That money goes mostly to the federal government, > not to > > > > > > > > localities. The Social Security Administration estimates that > in > > > > > 2007, > > > > > > > > illegal residents nationwide contributed a net of $12 billion > to > > > the > > > > > > > system. > > > > > > > > > > The largest costs to California's budget from its illegal > > > residents > > > > > are > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > three areas: > > > > > > > > > > * Education: The state has no official count of how many > students > > > are > > > > > in > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > country illegally because school districts do not ask. But > the > > > state > > > > > > > > legislative analyst estimated, based on data from the Pew > > > Hispanic > > > > > > > Center, > > > > > > > > that the state's 6.3 million public school students include > about > > > > > 300,000 > > > > > > > > illegal residents. At an annual cost of about $7,626 each, > the > > > total > > > > > > > comes > > > > > > > > to nearly $2.3 billion. > > > > > > > > > > * Prisons: In fiscal year 2009-10, California expects to > spend > > > about > > > > > $834 > > > > > > > > million to incarcerate 19,000 illegal immigrants in the > state's > > > > > prisons. > > > > > > > In > > > > > > > > Los Angeles County, illegal immigrants add between $370 > million > > > and > > > > > $550 > > > > > > > > million annually to criminal justice costs, including > > > prosecution, > > > > > > > defense, > > > > > > > > probation and jails, according to Supervisor Mike Antonovich. > > > > > > > > > > * Healthcare: The expected state tab for healthcare in fiscal > > > 2009-10 > > > > > is > > > > > > > > $703 million for as many as 780,000 illegal immigrants. Of > that, > > > $486 > > > > > > > > million goes to emergency services. But low-income illegal > > > residents > > > > > are > > > > > > > > also eligible for some nonemergency health services, > including > > > > > prenatal > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > postpartum care, abortions, breast and cervical cancer > treatment > > > and > > > > > > > certain > > > > > > > > types of long-term care, such as stays in nursing homes. Most > of > > > the > > > > > > > > nonemergency care for illegal immigrants was authorized by > the > > > > > > > Legislature > > > > > > > > in the 1980s. > > > > > > > > > > Much of those costs are beyond the control of state > officials. > > > The > > > > > U.S. > > > > > > > > Supreme Court ruled in 1982 that the Constitution forbids > school > > > > > > > districts > > > > > > > > to turn away children who are illegal immigrants. And federal > law > > > > > > > requires > > > > > > > > emergency rooms to treat everyone, regardless of citizenship. > > > > > > > > > > How serious a problem those costs are is a subject of > constant > > > > > debate. > > > > > > > "It > > > > > > > > is a catastrophic hit . . . on every level of government," > > > Antonovich > > > > > > > said. > > > > > > > > > > State Sen. Denise Moreno Ducheny (D-San Diego) who heads the > > > Senate > > > > > > > budget > > > > > > > > committee, counters that illegal immigrants are net > contributors > > > > > through > > > > > > > > their taxes and labor in > > > > ... > > > > read more ยป- Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text - > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups. For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum * Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/ * It's active and moderated. 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