Holly, Holly, Holly....... As I have pointed out to you on numerous occasions, you should always read the posts by thinking, well read, conservative Americans several times before responding.
Zeb and Bruce both are not advocating that laws be broken, or that illegal immigrants should not be prosecuted. Just the opposite is true. Bruce, and I imagine Zeb also concurs, would like to see much less laws in this Nation, but that is getting off of the point of illegal immigration, and a federal government who asked all Americans to forego their civil liberties in the name of National Security, when at the same time, our federal government refused to secure our national borders, allowing for anyone, to include folks who frequently sport dirty laundry on their heads, to enter our Nation, without any accountability. Further, Bruce, like most thinking Americans and all conservatives, finds it repulsive that we, as taxpayers, are footing the bill for these illegal aliens, predominately from Mexico, to include their health care, the schooling of their children, their food subsidies, and their criminal mischief and what that causes to our society both fiscally and socially. These are not racist sentiments, nor is there any of the conservatives that I know of, who are Anti-Mexican. No one wants to curtail any individual or their family from wanting to better themselves, their families, or to prohibit anyone from prospering. Of course, it is hard for me to understand why these folks are not in their own Nation demanding that a corrupt government start addressing the poverty; the lack of services; the neglect of an infrastructure, especially with a land that is ripe with natural resources and a vibrant labor pool, but as most socialists and liberals believe, these folks think that America owes them something, and I, like many thinking, conservative Americans resent that. I tend to believe that Bruce and Zeb do also. On Sat, Jul 11, 2009 at 8:31 PM, Hollywood <[email protected]>wrote: > > bruce, > > First thing I learned about the law was that in many cases it has > nothing whatsoever to do with justice. You sound like a little kid > crying to mama that "it's just not FAIR!!!". Check into Hotel Reality > lad. > I hate to be the one to have to break this to you, it saddens me > somewhat to burst your little bubble. Oh yeah, and Santa Claus is also > not real. > > Tell me lad, who's version of "justice" would you like to measure > everything against? > > On Jul 11, 4:10 pm, bruce majors <[email protected]> wrote: > > Yes and as we all know law and justice are identical aren't they > > > > On Sat, Jul 11, 2009 at 2:29 PM, Hollywood <[email protected] > >wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > bruce, > > > > > Yeah, they are called LAWS. Duuuuuuh..... > > > Ya' think the FBI would give the slightest fuck if I were to decide I > > > have the RIGHT to rob a bank? OR the INS if I think it's RIGHT to > > > ignore our immigration laws? Feel free to do what you think is right > > > lad, just be prepared to take the consequences if the law in this > > > country runs counter to what you think is right. > > > Guess what? Some radical Islamics think it is right and moral to > > > strangle their daughter for wearing a mini-skirt. Here in St. Louis we > > > called that murder and arrest your sorry ass. > > > My, my, bruce defending Islamic nut-jobs because they are only doing > > > what they think is right and moral. > > > > > On Jul 11, 9:49 am, bruce majors <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > It's a more abstract discussion than that Holly > > > > You believe that what governments say is important and has something > to > > > do > > > > with what is wrong or right > > > > > > You believe they are the source of rights > > > > > > You are wrong > > > > > > On Sat, Jul 11, 2009 at 10:47 AM, Hollywood < > [email protected] > > > >wrote: > > > > > > > bruce, > > > > > > > When I visit Mexico I do it legally. It's not called a "visit" when > > > > > you cross a border illegally. My, my look at all the conservatives > > > > > defending illegal aliens and encouraging the violation of American > law > > > > > and sovereignty. What has suddenly happened to you lads? > > > > > > > On Jul 11, 9:33 am, bruce majors <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > States don't have a right to tell non-violent people where they > can > > > > > travel. > > > > > > If someone invites them to visit they should be able to > > > > > > > > On Sat, Jul 11, 2009 at 10:22 AM, Hollywood < > > > [email protected] > > > > > >wrote: > > > > > > > > > bruce, > > > > > > > > > Sure, just so long as they do it LEGALLY. > > > > > > > So, you really do NOT want to solve the illegal alien problem? > You > > > > > > > WANT to allow CERTAIN people to break American immigration laws > > > with > > > > > > > no significant punishment or consequences? Gee, I thought you > lads > > > > > > > were all about law & order, personal responsibility and doing > > > > > > > something about unemployment. Guess not. > > > > > > > > > On Jul 11, 8:45 am, bruce majors <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > > > > People should be free to work and live where they like > > > > > > > > Just not to live off taxpayers > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Jul 11, 2009 at 9:41 AM, Hollywood < > > > > > [email protected] > > > > > > > >wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > bruce, > > > > > > > > > > > I got an idea. Why don't we simply dry up the reason they > are > > > > > coming > > > > > > > > > here illegally? They come here for jobs, to work here > > > illegally. > > > > > Send > > > > > > > > > govt. agents, INS or whomever to raid plants and look for > > > illegal > > > > > > > > > workers. And, of course, deport those illegals but more > > > importantly > > > > > > > > > provide punsihment to the people that hire them that would > be > > > > > > > > > significant enough to stop them from ever even THINKING of > > > doing > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > again. Throw a few plant managers and HR managers in jail, > fine > > > > > them > > > > > > > > > significantly enough to put a stop to the illegal activity > of > > > > > hiring > > > > > > > > > illegals. What good does it do to fime a company a few > bucks if > > > > > they > > > > > > > > > are saving 10 times that amount by hiring the illegals? If > i > > > commit > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > crime that nets me a profit of $1 million dollars and I'm > > > caught > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > the fine is $100,000.00 with no jail time why on earth > would I > > > NOT > > > > > > > > > commit that crime again, first chance I got? > > > > > > > > > Oh yeah, and forbid any company caught hiring illegals from > > > even > > > > > > > > > bidding on any city, county, state or federal govt. > contracts > > > for > > > > > at > > > > > > > > > least on year or so. No, maybe it would be tough to do that > to > > > > > every > > > > > > > > > homeowner that hires and illegal to cut his grass or clean > his > > > pool > > > > > > > > > but it would have an impact on large agricultural, > > > manufacturers, > > > > > meat > > > > > > > > > & poultry processors, etc. etc. Enough out of work American > > > > > citizens > > > > > > > > > to fill those jobs. > > > > > > > > > > > On Jul 11, 7:53 am, bruce majors <[email protected]> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > *From:* Jeff Schwilk <[email protected]> > > > > > > > > > > *Date:* 7/10/2009 10:39:51 AM > > > > > > > > > > *Subject:* LA Times: The Cost of Illegal Aliens > > > > > > > > > > > > *FORWARD FAR AND WIDE!* > > > > > > > > > > > > The solution to California's budget mess is simple: Stop > > > anchor > > > > > > > babies, > > > > > > > > > > stop taxpayer benefits to ILLEGAL aliens, and stop > illegal > > > > > > > immigration in > > > > > > > > > > California! We can no longer afford open borders! > > > > > > > > > > > > Sign the Petition now to Save California! > > > > > > > > > > *www.TaxpayerRevolution.org<http://www.taxpayerrevolution.org/> > *< > > >http://www.TaxpayerRevolution.org <http://www.taxpayerrevolution.org/>> > > > > >http://www.latimes.com/news/la-me-illegal10-2009jul10,0,4951833.story. > > > > > .. > > > > > > > > > > > > < > > > > >http://www.latimes.com/news/la-me-illegal10-2009jul10,0,4951833.story.. > > > > > > > > > .> > > > > > > > > > > > > Illegal immigrants again in the budget spotlight > > > > > > > > > > The economic downturn has activists pushing for a measure > > > that > > > > > would > > > > > > > > > limit > > > > > > > > > > the services Californians provide. > > > > > > > > > > By Anna Gorman and Teresa Watanabe > > > > > > > > > > July 10, 2009 > > > > > > > > > > As California lawmakers struggle with a budget gap that > has > > > now > > > > > > > grown to > > > > > > > > > > $26.3 billion, one of the hottest topics for many > taxpayers > > > is > > > > > the > > > > > > > cost > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > the state of illegal immigrants. > > > > > > > > > > > > The question of whether taxpayers should provide services > to > > > > > illegal > > > > > > > > > > residents< > > > > > > > > http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2009/07/is-illegal-immigration-.. > > > > > > > .> > > > > > > > > > > became > > > > > > > > > > a major political issue in California's last deep > recession, > > > > > > > culminating > > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > the ballot fight over Proposition 187 in 1994. That > history > > > could > > > > > > > repeat > > > > > > > > > > itself in the current downturn, as activists opposed to > > > illegal > > > > > > > > > immigration > > > > > > > > > > have launched a campaign for an initiative that would, > among > > > > > other > > > > > > > > > things, > > > > > > > > > > cut off welfare payments to the U.S.-born children of > illegal > > > > > > > immigrants. > > > > > > > > > > Those children are eligible for welfare benefits because > they > > > are > > > > > > > U.S. > > > > > > > > > > citizens. > > > > > > > > > > > > State welfare officials estimate that cutting off > payments > > > to > > > > > > > illegal > > > > > > > > > > immigrants for their U.S.-born children could save about > $640 > > > > > million > > > > > > > > > > annually if it survives legal challenges. > > > > > > > > > > > > California has roughly 2.7 million illegal residents, > > > according > > > > > to an > > > > > > > > > April > > > > > > > > > > 2009 report from the authoritative Pew Hispanic Center, > > > > > accounting > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > about > > > > > > > > > > 7% of the state's population. State officials estimate > that > > > they > > > > > add > > > > > > > > > between > > > > > > > > > > $4 billion and $6 billion in costs, primarily for prisons > and > > > > > jails, > > > > > > > > > schools > > > > > > > > > > and emergency rooms. Beyond those services, the illegal > > > > > population > > > > > > > adds > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > the overall cost of other parts of local government, from > > > police > > > > > and > > > > > > > fire > > > > > > > > > > protection to highway maintenance and libraries. > > > > > > > > > > > > On the other side of the ledger, illegal residents pay > taxes > > > -- > > > > > sales > > > > > > > > > taxes > > > > > > > > > > on what they buy, gasoline taxes when they fuel their > cars, > > > > > property > > > > > > > > > taxes > > > > > > > > > > if they own homes. The total is hotly debated, although > most > > > > > > > researchers > > > > > > > > > > agree that the short-term costs to state and local > government > > > are > > > > > > > bigger > > > > > > > > > > than the revenues. > > > > > > > > > > > > Many companies that hire illegal workers also withhold > Social > > > > > > > Security > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > income taxes from their paychecks, based on workers' > invalid > > > > > Social > > > > > > > > > Security > > > > > > > > > > numbers. That money goes mostly to the federal > government, > > > not to > > > > > > > > > > localities. The Social Security Administration estimates > that > > > in > > > > > > > 2007, > > > > > > > > > > illegal residents nationwide contributed a net of $12 > billion > > > to > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > system. > > > > > > > > > > > > The largest costs to California's budget from its illegal > > > > > residents > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > three areas: > > > > > > > > > > > > * Education: The state has no official count of how many > > > students > > > > > are > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > country illegally because school districts do not ask. > But > > > the > > > > > state > > > > > > > > > > legislative analyst estimated, based on data from the Pew > > > > > Hispanic > > > > > > > > > Center, > > > > > > > > > > that the state's 6.3 million public school students > include > > > about > > > > > > > 300,000 > > > > > > > > > > illegal residents. At an annual cost of about $7,626 > each, > > > the > > > > > total > > > > > > > > > comes > > > > > > > > > > to nearly $2.3 billion. > > > > > > > > > > > > * Prisons: In fiscal year 2009-10, California expects to > > > spend > > > > > about > > > > > > > $834 > > > > > > > > > > million to incarcerate 19,000 illegal immigrants in the > > > state's > > > > > > > prisons. > > > > ... > > > > read more ยป- Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text - > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups. For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum * Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/ * It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls. * Read the latest breaking news, and more. -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
