jgg, now you try to take my argument out of its realm by introducing the "conquest" into it.... none of your examples fits the Afghan scenario now or past. Just what are you purposely trying to misdirect or obscure ?? or are just that stupid ??
The terms you throw about with impunity complete with colorful yet misplaced adjectives on matters not within the theme shows you as a used car style word smith... never address the point.. No outsiders... leave them to themselves just as they have always asked... do not interfere unless the government allows drugs, violence and terror to be exported. then hold those in power responsible (yes, something severely lacking in the US society... self responsibility. people there can't trip on the sidewalk without suing the city ...whatever happened to watching what the fuck you are doing??) to the nth degree. Oh but shit.... parents in your country aren't even responsible for what their own kids do.... sorry to have offended with the idea of personal and or political responsibility!!!!!!! Funny thing... I look at satellite pics and still see the drug lords houses, the poppy fields and operational tribal villages that supply the labor.... I see the national income of Afghanistan and then look at the weaponry of those tribal leaders that are supposedly NOT supplied by nthe US and see weaponry that costs Millions... I still, after all the years the US has been there, see the soldiers from the "other side" well armed (for an insurgent style army) and with guerrilla training that equals that of our soldiers... who allows the money to flow ??? Take some responsibility......... Let them have their own. On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 5:29 PM, jgg1000a <[email protected]> wrote: > This is interesting, while I think much of your reasoning is weak or > non-factual, your conclusion is near the mark... Folks like the > Anointed One > are neither Liberal or Progressive but by and by neo-colonial Marxist > in their thinking... Folks have forgotten the lesson of 1991. > > It was a lesson the Americans in their Manifest Destiny, the Russians > in their Imperial Tsars concerning the Caucuses and Siberia, China > Emperors and Communist Party in NW China and Tibet, the Spanish in > Central and South America, The Turks in the ME, the Bantu and > Afrikaners in South Africa, the Portuguese in Brazil, and the Sioux, > Iroquois, Aztec, Inca, Apache, Comanche, and Blackfoot knew ... > Continental Expansion requires the taking of populated lands... And > that requires subject-gating the current inhabitants.... It is a > lesson the forefathers of current day Afghanistan knew and practiced > for thousands of years -- that is the Greek, Turkish, and Mongolian > tribes who invaded, conquered, practiced genocide on scale > unimaginable today (consider the Mongols in Central Asia around > 1000-1300 AD)... > > Global and Continental trade require that those not in the current > system not fight the system... Systems are routinely disrupted and > damaged by "invaders"... Like to the history of Scotland and you will > see modern day Pakistani history -- nomadic highlanders invade and > seek to dominate the more populated lowland... > > > On Dec 1, 10:06 am, VT Sean Lewis <[email protected]> wrote: > > Mein Kampf sounds like a children's book compared to this. > > > > On Dec 1, 9:50 am, THE ANNOINTED ONE <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > The only lasting peace that will be attained in Afghanistan will be > > > under the the jack-boots of a strong, kill all dissenters dictator. > > > Promise him free reign as long as he exports/allows to be exported > > > nothing but grain and fruits. Tell him he will be killed otherwise. > > > Then keep the promise. > > > > > The will and moral dilemma the west has will NEVER suffice in a tribal > > > atmosphere. There can be no "Mr. Nice Guy". You may have to kill the > > > first two or three dictators for the lesson to sink in and the US > > > people do not have the cajones. > > > > > On Dec 1, 7:31 am, VT Sean Lewis <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > The Afghan people deserve a real chance at Peace, > > > > that is why I support President Obama and the Troop increase. > > > > > > Sean Lewis > > > > December 1, 2009 > > > > > > The moment Rumsfeld denied the Military Generals request to > > > > send addition troops into Tora Bora to capture or kill > > > > Bin Laden, that was the moment that a swift and > > > > long lasting victory against terrorism was forever lost. > > > > > > We have been fighting a mismanaged war of attrition > > > > and will ever since that moment. > > > > > > The will of Al-Qaeda would have been crushed if > > > > Bin Laden had been quickly brought to justice. The > > > > exact opposite occurred when Bin laden was allowed to > > > > escape. It not only allowed Al-Qaeda to re-constitute > > > > itself but also energized multiple terrorist organizations > > > > through out the world. > > > > > > These organizations now knew that not only could they > > > > strike at America, but they could also do so and live to > > > > reap the benefits of such a successful attack. > > > > > > Had the US actually completed the task of capturing or > > > > killing Bin Laden the post war Afghanistan theater of > > > > operations would have been one of reconstruction not > > > > continued warfare. > > > > > > Unfortunately this is not what occurred. > > > > > > Bin Laden and Al-Qaeda found sanctuary in Pakistan > > > > and reestablished itself as a nebulous enemy with > > > > no central point to attack and thus be able to eradicate > > > > it. Such a swift and quick victory will never be available again. > > > > > > In fact the ability to win militarily may no longer be an option. > > > > > > This option was squandered by Rumsfeld, time, > > > > constant war, incompetence, torture and no clear plan or > > > > strategy have turned the population in Afghanistan into > > > > angry participants in a war not of their choosing. > > > > > > What President Obama may be trying to do is to > > > > make an untenable situation at least salvageable. > > > > > > To do this he is willing to do what the Bush Administration > > > > under Rumsfeld failed to done. > > > > > > Fight the war the correct way with a clear strategy and > > > > exit. > > > > > > Simply put, for 8 years the war was not fought to attain > > > > a long term victory, but merely to win in the short term. > > > > These are not the same things as time has clearly proven. > > > > > > President Obama wants to try to correct a monumental > > > > mistake. To TRULY stabilize the region so that the population > > > > has a real opportunity to establish their own government > > > > that may be able to withstand the influence of both the > > > > Taliban and Al-Qaeda. > > > > > > America had no business in trying to establish a US > > > > style democracy in another Country. This is a recipe > > > > for certain failure. > > > > > > It is one thing to free a people from tyranny, but they will > > > > quickly reject their rescuers if they are merely shackled > > > > to another form of forced governance. > > > > > > This is exactly what the Bush Administration did, they > > > > merely changed one form of forced governance for > > > > another, neither of which were the actual will of > > > > the Afghan people. > > > > > > The best President Obama can hope for after 8 years > > > > of utter incompetent Presidential oversight in the > > > > execution of military action in Afghanistan, is a country that > > > > can remain stable and not once again come under the influence > > > > of the Taliban and Al-Qaeda. > > > > > > It is a long shot, but that doesn't mean the Afghan people > > > > do not deserve the opportunity to actually have the ability > > > > for real reform in a safe and stable environment that is > > > > created by overwhelming military force, securing the peace. > > > > > >http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/12/1/81844/7221?new=true > > -- > Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups. > For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum > > * Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/ > * It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls. > * Read the latest breaking news, and more. > -- Mark M. Kahle, , www.filacoffee.com -- Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups. For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum * Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/ * It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls. * Read the latest breaking news, and more.
