I would refute this. Partisan gridlock, investigations, obstruction of
bad legislation by the administration, that is what people voted for
this year. The rest of what you are claiming is only in the mind of
partisans like Tommy.
Orolonged debate and investigations I would appreciate as then maybe the
fools in Congress would at least read the legislation they are voting
for and not have to come back and say I didn't see that in the bill or I
would have fixed it. The fools never read the bill which is why they
didn't know stuff like that 1099 brouhaha that is going to devastate the
IRS and the smaller companies who use a lot of different suppliers or
the individual operators who use companies for transportation or
deliveries and therefore have to prepare 1099's with proper tax ID's for
maybe even hundreds of companies and then submit those 1099's to the IRS
which is already buried with the current forms. The IRS meanwhile has
been trying to install updated systems for years and still hasn't been
able to get them to work properly and now the idiots in Congress stick
them with a lot more forms. Add to that the idea that the IRS will be
the group that enforces the requirement for everyone to buy insurance.
Think how much the IRS messes up now and add to that these two
additional duties and then tell my you don't want lengthy discussion on
the advisability of doing this - and that is just for starters.
As to the backroom deals, when did the Republicans ever do this. The
Dems did it this year with locking out the Republicans from the writing
of the HCR bill - and then blamed the Republicans for obstruction.
Under the circumstances obstruction is least of what I would expect!!
Of course Tommy wants to cut that. Clinton spent the peace dividend in
the 1990's and the result was that forces to defend the country had to
be built back up again which cost more. Actually spending on the "war
mongering" as Tommy boy calls it is one of the matters that is the
province of the feds. That is one of their major duties and Tommy wants
to cut it. The Republicans have tried to cut where they can at times
but even then the Dems get all upset when the cuts hit an area where the
Dems want to buy more votes. Check out how strongly Kennedy opposed
base closings over the years for example. He did not even want to
discuss closing bases in Massachusetts even though there was no further
use for those bases.
Your complaint about Jonathan is really reaching. You know already what
he was saying and you are just trying to muddy the waters there.
And your complaint about what I wrote makes no sense at all. I was
saying that the feds are trying to tell us what we can say or what we
can do or their latest what light bulbs we can use or what foods we are
allowed to put in the lunches for the kids at school. Companies cannot
hire the best people any more. They must hire to some proportional
breakdown of the population or the feds sue them. I ran the
personnel/benefits programs for several companies I consulted for and
the feds came in and told them they had not hired enough people from a
minority. The problem was that the minority would not come to the
company because of the location and problems they had had with the
residents of that location so of course the company could not hire
enough of the minority. I had to produce 4000 pages of reports, 6
copies each, every month to prove that we were attempting to hire from
that minority and that we were not favoring one segment of the workforce
in benefits, etc. Nobody ever seemed to look at the reports but I
still had to spend a weekend every month producing the reports or the
feds would have sued the company. Yes, freedom is the absence of the
government interfering in the people implementing their ideas or taxing
them or stupid rules that keep inventors from implementing good ideas.
It is also forcing things that are totally unnecessary on local
governments just because they can. Small town libraries in areas where
there is a struggle to survive and the feds come in and say you have to
have a special facility even though there is no need for that facility
at all. You are being stupid with your freedom to rob a bank. There
again the stopping of the criminals is a duty of the government but you
knew that - just trying to make a stupid deal of it. And yes Uncle
Sugar fighting wars against the big bad wolf because it is better to
fight them there rather than here. But you knew that as well.
Actually the reason we collectively cannot make a decision is because of
matters like paying off those who got your elected ( unions, anyone?)
when that payoff results in big cost overruns and lousy work and loss of
jobs and also other special deals to favor your supporters and playing
mind games with people so that they don't have to take responsibility
for their actions. Cannot have little Johnny skin his knee or he might
cry.
On 01/05/2011 08:52 PM, Dena Liles wrote:
Well this seems to be just about as heated as up on the hill. Folks I
don't believe that people voted for replublicans or democratics for
their stand on anything. Can you honestly say that you understand the
health care bill? Be honest! One thing I have never had a problem
admitting is what I don't know. But I do know this (and I'm speaking
about all parties or progressives (I don't even know when they came
out of the cabbage patch), independents (who can't be) and the people
that just try to find the truth on the the candidates. Very few are
happy with our government; I haven't met a one but I have heard there
were.
Most that I know of voted for change just like they did hoped for with
Obama, and they didn't get it. So what are most people going to
do when they try to fix something (even like a car) and it doesn't
work. They choose another path expecting that change. So IMHO we have
voted another stalemate. Now that we have passed this; they have can
start the election for 2012.
Tommy says: say hello to partisan gridlock, obstruction,
investigations, the demonization of Unions, legislation to harm the
poor and working class, efforts to make the President fail, and
un-American bad behavior for the next two years! *<<< Who in this
forum refutes that this will go on?*
The Annointed One asks Tommy: Please tell me why you find prolonged
debate and investigations wrong? *<<< Does anyone really want gov.
to lengthen and protract anything? *
**
Tommy replies: I do find unwarranted politically motivated
fillibusters, abuse of the 60 vote rule, backroom "deals", and
legislative obstruction wrong, however. *<<< Does anyone refute that
both sides do this and it will stop today forever including you, Mark?*
**
Tommy replies: Our health insurance system is one of the most
cumbersome in the world, since it's really not a system. *<<< Does
anyone refute that a system should be a regulary interacting or
interdependent group forming a unified whole *
**
and Tommy continues: It's interesting that in all this talk about
saving money, it's never once been brought up that perhaps we should
cut back in the war mongering department. *<<< here's where I have
something to say because I'm right at the gates of the R&D Mecca of
the Masters of War - we were laughed at about a year ago when one of
the firms purposed a robot with a rifle attached to it. And while we
pay for the R&D and the prototypes to be built (which is usually more
than producing many of the new and improved ways to kill) the
companies don't just sell to us. We are getting killed by our own
inventions. *
**
*Then Johnathen replies: What was good for the goose is definitely
good for the gander as you will see with this Congress.<<<This one
needs clarification because this means that: **What is good for a man
is equally good for a woman; or, what a man can have or do, so can a
woman have or do. I assume that you are trying to say that the good
things that one poltical party enjoys, so should the other. Or worse,
that if you feel you have been wronged then others who have opposed
your intentions will meet with the same fate irregardless of if it is
good or bad for our country.
And lastly Dick replies: The thing is that part of the reason we are
so rich is that our citizens have the opportunity to plan and take
care of themselves in the way that they choose. We have the right to
succeed beyond the wildest expectations of the rest of the world and
we also have the right to fail and then try again. That is what
freedom is all about. What you want is Uncle Sugar to make sure no
big bad wolf calls you names or harms you in any way - all you have to
do is give up your dreams.<<< I just am lost on this because
Americans can't plan and take care of themselves as they choose the
restrictions on American citizens - Well I could write all night.
Countries I can't go to, words I can't type on certain websites,
places I must conform to to live, taxes I don't want to pay. And no we
do not have the right to succeed beyond the wildest expectation of the
rest of world.<<<So this means I can dominate it and exploit it.
Freedom is the absence of necessity, coercion, or constraint in choice
or action<<<so I'm free to rob a bank. And Uncle Sugar is supposedly
fighting several wars against the big bad wolf. *
**
*I would say that the posts on this page represent precisely why we
collectively can't make a decision. As we watch the next 2 years, and
the next 2 years, and the next 2 years, ponder what was said here. And
they say that for anything to change it must be from the grassroots
up. This just disappoints me.*
*Peace (unless you have stock in War)*
*TS*
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