Where else do Common Lispers go to talk shop, whether CL or something else?
To me, Common Lispers "talking shop" by definition means talking about CL or related topics, not an open-ended "something else." I would turn that question around and ask "where else do Common Lispers go for unapologetic mutual support for their chosen or imposed computing platform, which is Common Lisp?" If groups such as this mailing list become diluted with hand wringing, naysaying, and negativity, then you tell me Tim, where do actual Common Lispers go? CL is very good but it is not perfect. Debating the relative merits of > various languages can lead to cross-pollination of ideas. It appears that > most innovation is happening elsewhere, and I hope this community can > bring the best of CL into a worthy successor, whatever it may be called. > > If "most innovation is happening elsewhere" then those of us who have the propensity to look into other languages can serve the community here by reporting back the cool things they find and discussing how we may or may not be able to co-opt such things into CL. If such is the perspective and purpose of "debating the merits of various languages," then indeed, such debate can result in productive cross-pollination, and this is needed and wanted. If the intention and focus is instead to sing the praises of other environments in order to seek fellow converts or validation for converting, and doing this while specifically targeting a group set up to support "professional common lispers," then I consider such efforts to be unhelpful in the context of this group and I would invite you to take such discussions into the forums of those other environments or into some general language discussion forums. Understand that not all of us have the "luxury" on the one hand, nor the desire on the other hand, to chase the dragon of the latest cool thing, and we look to groups such as this one specifically to support our crusty old entrenched mentality -- and to improve our environment as best we can, understanding the inherent limitations that exist. This is the life we have chosen.
