> Which VMware products are you running? I know you're using ESXi (as > your > hypervisor). But what VMware package did your viClient come from > (vSphere, vSphere Essentials, vSphere Essentials Plus, ESXi Management > Kit Promotion) and how much does it cost? Are you running any other > VMware software?
Good questions, I hope I have good answers <g>... And I have some background so you can see why I have taken the path I am on now. Sorry for the non-short answer, but... I started off with VMware Workstation Windows v-6.5 last year, when I found VirtualBox (both pre-Sun and post-Sun flavors) was not stable enough to handle the load I was throwing on the client virtual PCs when testing my apps. VMware Workstation for Windows did handle the load fine (trial versions). I then licensed the VMware Workstation for Linux v-6.5. Both the Windows and Linux versions work under either a 32 bit or 64 bit host platform. I had been playing with virtual machine solutions for a while, mostly to be able to test my apps under full load using different OS and PC configurations. I was not then even thinking of virtualization for machine consolidation purposes. After we picked up a commercial client late last year, and saw we could end up processing data and producing reports (all automated with a blend of VFP, PostgreSQL, Java, Crystal Reports, Excel and CutePDF) for up to 400 stores from NY alone. Due to VFP file size limits, and time requirements for automating both translating source data and producing & distributing the reports via eMail attachments, I knew I would need to use multiple machines. I found I can handle about 15 stores (auto dealerships) per machine, sometimes more if I have a few smaller stores. I was facing the prospect of having to house nearly 30 additional PCs with all the machine management, occupied space, heat load and electrical consumption. So I began to look at using virtualization to get a denser utilization per physical machine. Having used VMware Workstation for my multiple OS/configuration setups I knew the product was solid for that purpose. So I started off using VMware Workstation under both Windows and Linux to see if I could get up to 3 virtual PCs on a single physical machine. If I could that meant I could handle up to 45 stores on a single physical machine, and would only have to pick up and run 8 or 9 machines for this one commercial client project (they cover more than just NY, and we could go national at some point). Well, the Dell Vostro units I picked up had a max of 4Gb RAM, and at 768Mg RAM per virtual PC I figured I could likely get 3 virtual PCs to run, leaving about 1Gb RAM for the host machine. Well, the first thing I ran into (I like the Vostro PCs, by the way) is the Vostro 220 has shared video RAM. I had upgraded the video to get dual monitor capability, and figured I could recapture the RAM no longer needed to share for the onboard video. I knew the XP Pro OS would only map 3.5Gb RAM, so it would be tight with 3 virtual PCs, but in theory a good place to start. As it turns out the on-board video RAM sharing is not managed via CMOS. The 512Mg RAM shared with video is gone (at least under Windows, which is a mystery to me as Unbuntu Linux Server 32 bit OS sees all 4Gb RAM), and I was only able to see 3.0Gb RAM with XP Pro (3.5Gb mappable minus 512 Mg reserved for video RAM). So I am down to a maximum density of 2 virtual machines on the Vostro units. That is fine, as I have plenty of other things I need to use them for anyway. So I ordered two Dell Precision t3400 units with the "2 core duo" P4 CPUs (upgraded to one of the faster P4s. but it is a single physical CPU machine), and got 8Gb RAM. The only way I could order the PCs with 8Gb RAM was to get them with Red Hat Linux 64 bit workstation, otherwise the max order was 4Gb, and I would have to add the other 4Gb myself (easy to do, but I wanted all native Dell config for warranty purposes - no excuses). Meantime I had done some research and found VMware had their VMware Server 2 app that looked more robust than the Workstation products. And they had a Windows and Linux version, which could run under either 32 bit or 64 bit OS. I figured I would use Ubuntu Linux Server 64 bit on the t3400 units, so I could see all 8 Gb RAM without any memory tricks, and maybe run up to 4 machines or more. The t3400 units arrived, and I installed Ubuntu 64 bit Server with no problems, to include installing the GUI. They ran fast, really fast. I then installed VMware Workstation for Linux on one of the machines, and VMware Server 2 on the other. It was easy to merely copy the VMX and related files from the Vostro PC VMware apps onto the t3400 PCs. So now I had two beefy machines with 8Gb RAM, running under a 64 bit OS that could see all 8 Gb of RAM, dual hard drives so I could place my data files on a separate hard drive, and not chew up LAN bandwidth by keeping disk I/O local, and plenty of CPU horsepower. It turned out I could only get 2 virtual PCs to run effectively on the VMware Linux Workstation t3400. If I lit up a 3rd virtual machine the virtual machines would begin to choke, even with all that host and guest RAM (I bumped the guest RAM to 1Gb). On the VMware Server 2 t3400 I did fare better, but not by much. I could get 3 virtual machines to run well, but when I lit up the 4th machine all four would dog, and there was no really effective load balancing from what I could see. There were some options I could try-and-buy that are supposed to help improve performance, but at this point I was ready to speak with a human to see if I really would be better off going into their Bare Metal product (ESXi). After speaking with a VMware Sales Rep I did end up downloading ESXi (free, but the goodies to really get it to work are licensed for a fee. But they offer a 60 day trial first, more than fair). So I copied the VMX and related files from the t3400 running VMWare Server 2 onto an external HDD, stripped the boot drive, and installed the ESXi from an CD I burned using the ESXi ISO file I downloaded. The installation was very simple, and went quickly. I read the documentation afterward, and found I actually managed to not screw anything up (yet)! Easy to not screw up as there is hardly anything to do other than configure the NIC since I wanted to use a static IP address. But now that ESXi was running, what next? There was no local interface I could see where I could do anything! When I read the ESXi documentation I saw I had to use a browser to access the ESXi Server. I did so, and was presented with a screen from whence I could request the viClient app, which is what we use to manage the ESXi Server, and install & manage the guest machines. It also provided an email (with the link to download the viClient app) with links for a WebEx overview of the ESXi product, and another WebEx demo on how to set up ESXi, install/build guest machines, and how to manage the system via viClient. The demo did not show how to import previous VMX files from Workstation/Server 2, so I was on my own there. But I had enough info to move forward. Turns out the ESXi does not use VMX files. The ESXi import feature only imports OVF files, and it turns out the Workstation export function that builds OVF files does not create the same type of OVF file needed for ESXi! I thought I would have to build the Win2k Pro virtual machines from scratch, but then I noticed the error message I got when trying to import my OVF file said something about the VMware Convertor app, so I requested it. I got an eMail with the link for the download, downloaded it, installed it, then ran it. I finally figured out how to migrate a VMX file onto the ESXi Server. It went well, although there were some minor tweaks (resetting the static IP for the new virtual NIC, and reinstalling VMware Tools). Easy stuff. In retrospect, almost too easy for what I was going to get in return. I then configured the virtual machines to use the 2nd physical hard drive in the t3400 PC for the VFP data files, and lit the virtual PCs up one at a time. The rest is history. I am running all 5 of my core virtual PCs under the one ESXi host machine, and they are all 5 running great - including running the VFP apps. I fired off a TranslationEngine process (very intense VFP app), and found it worked great, nearly as fast as a physical XP Pro machine with 2Gb RAM. I set up the guest PCs with a single core CPU and 1Gb RAM. I am confident I will be able to have a 6th guest PC run under the ESXi Server without any serious issues. So, that is where I am at this juncture. I am smiling, as even if I can only get 5 ( or even 4) guest PCs to run under a ESXi Server, I am down to needing only 6 physical production PCs for this commercial project. If I can push to getting 6 guest PCs under each ESXi Server I am down to needing only 5 physical machines. Not bad when compared to otherwise needing 30 physical machines without virtualization. Also, the viClient can be run from any PC on my LAN, so I do not have to get off my dead arse to use a dedicated management console machine. Plus viClient can manage more than one ESXi Server! BTW, even if I were to cut to PostgreSQL for a back end, and eliminate the 2Gb file size limit in VFP (parameterized views would keep the cursors < 2Gb each), I have time constraints to deal with for the TranslationEngine processes. So for that reason alone I have a practical limit of about 15 stores managed per physical or virtual PC. I am heading to SoCal this Friday, and return on the 25th. While gone I plan to let ESXi run all of my automated processes, as it is doing now, for live production purposes. I have not yet told Dave (associate working on this project with me) that his queries have been running against the ESXi based virtual PCs, so he thinks I am still running virtual PCs under VMware Workstation or Server 2. It was that smooth of a transition. On June 4th I am going to a VMware presentation for their vSphere4 product suite (Rochester, NY). If I like what I see I will likely select the VMware licenses I need, and go for it. I will know far more after that presentation than I do at this point. At times I still feel like I am flailing a bit, but I have come a long way since my first foray into the M$ VPC app a few years ago. And regardless of my feeling a little lost at times, still, I got enough pulled together to get this far, and I am very pleased with the results I found with ESXi for my purposes. As for how the numbers stack up using virtualization vs physical machines, here is the bottom line. If I used physical machines I would need 27 PCs that would cost (with PC, UPS, external backup HDD units and backup SyncBack software) about $2,140 each. And each PC with its external HDDs takes about $10/month in electricity to run - not including the further additional heat load the air conditioning would have to fight. Using VMware I can get by with 7 ESXi Servers (punchy workstation class PCs), with a cost of $2,500 each with all the fluff (SyncBack, UPS, external HDDs) - plus the VMware licensing of course. The difference is $57,780 for 27 physical PCs, plus $270.month for electricity vs $17,500 for 7 physical ESXi Server PCs and about $70/month for electricity - before VMware license fees. That difference of nearly $40,000 using virtualization will buy me a lot of full blown VMware licenses, much less the mere Foundation flavor of licensed product I need! Plus the $200/month in savings for electrical costs (plus no need for an electrician to come out and run a lot more isolated ground circuits, again! About $200 per circuit to run). So, for me the cost of VMware is not really an issue. I am not certain how anyone else is trying to invest justify virtualization. For me, even if it was a break-even proposition I would want to do it just to have fewer physical machines to deal with. I hope that (over) answers your question <g>... Gil > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto:profoxtech- > [email protected]] On Behalf Of Malcolm Greene > Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 12:18 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: [NF] Suggestions on how to automate VM Server client > backups? > > Gil, > > Thanks for sharing your VM experience with the rest of us. > > Which VMware products are you running? I know you're using ESXi (as > your > hypervisor). But what VMware package did your viClient come from > (vSphere, vSphere Essentials, vSphere Essentials Plus, ESXi Management > Kit Promotion) and how much does it cost? Are you running any other > VMware software? > > Thanks! > Malcolm > [excessive quoting removed by server] _______________________________________________ Post Messages to: [email protected] Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[email protected] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
