Firefox is a pretty popular browser. Indeed it's popul-IST. Chrome and Safari are tools of empire. If Firefox performance gets fixed, I'd say go ahead. Otherwise isn't it a bit of a show-stopper?
To be bold, or realistic? That is the question. Meanwhile, vanilla links to your YouTube vids will serve as a temporary answer for the next month or two. Novice users, whether J or jwiki, have a confidence-building problem - in fact it's their main problem. I've sat behind 1-way glass watching trial users go to pieces on hitting a glitch in software that pretends to be "helpful". Nobody presses "Help" and wants to be playing Crystal Cave. On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 6:54 AM, robert therriault <bobtherria...@mac.com>wrote: > Thanks Ian, > > I loaded up Firefox and had a slightly different experience. The animation > box was far too big and clicking the red dot did start the animation after > a fashion, but in a scrambled way. If you find a particular animation that > you want, it looks as if we could do it for Safari and Chrome (with some > work I think I could convince Firefox to work as well). I'll keep this on > the back burner, as I have a few other projects on the go. > > Cheers, bob > > On Jan 23, 2014, at 9:58 PM, Ian Clark <earthspo...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > @Bob > > > > Right! -- at long last I can see what I'm supposed to, using either > Chrome > > or Safari. The demos look good, technically. > > > > With Firefox (26.0 / up-to-date, Shockwave Flash 11.9.900.170, running on > > MBA under Mavericks, or iMac under Snow Leopard) I just see two big empty > > black-framed squares with pulsing red buttons. Clicking each button stops > > it pulsing, otherwise no-op. Frame remains blank, whatever I do. > > > > > > > > On Thu, Jan 23, 2014 at 4:01 PM, robert therriault < > bobtherria...@mac.com>wrote: > > > >> @Ian > >> > >> I agree with you that the links that are used as a reference to the > flash > >> video for Moinmoin do not allow the viewer access to an in-place > >> experience, and this motivated a proof of concept in svg. I know you are > >> busy, but I have moved the svg to the top of the page where it should be > >> easily seen as a square with a flashing red dot. Clicking the dot starts > >> the animation. > >> > >> http://www.jsoftware.com/jwiki/Vocabulary/plus/Animations > >> > >> If you don't see this, let me know and I'll put the page back to the way > >> it was. I am on a Mac as well, so I don't think that is the issue, but > >> knowing the browser you are using would be useful. If it turns out to > be a > >> hit and miss thing for people then I do think that it would be more of a > >> distraction than a benefit. > >> > >> I completely agree with you in terms of the amount of effort in creating > >> the animations compared to return in learning. Short of having an > animation > >> team to provide the critical mass of content that would be needed to > change > >> the way the viewer uses the site, I think the best solution is to only > use > >> animation when it truly saves the 'thousand words'. I still offer that > to > >> you (or others) when if would be useful. > >> > >> Once again, great work on the Nuvoc. > >> > >> Cheers, bob > >> > >> On Jan 23, 2014, at 4:56 AM, Ian Clark <earthspo...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> > >>> @Bob > >>> > >>> Yes I thought the animations were appealing when they first appeared. > No > >>> feedback yet on whether they actually help people? -- I'll have to rely > >> on > >>> you and others to collect that info from genuine novices. > >>> > >>> Sorry - your sample page doesn't work on my Mac. What I noticed > recently > >>> was that wherever an animation was embedded in the page, this message > now > >>> comes up instead of the picture (I've tried it on Safari and Firefox): > >>> > >>> Current configuration does not allow embedding of the file > >>> http://www.youtube.com/v/8CWEDGY3sSM because of its mimetype > >>> application/x-shockwave-flash.: http://www.youtube.com/v/8CWEDGY3sSM > >>> > >>> The above link does work (on the page) though. But then, if only a few > >>> people are ever going to see the animation as intended, why not just > >> offer > >>> the bare link? Moinmoin is after all a very starved palette when it > comes > >>> to deploying fancy gui controls -- and I don't think that's such a bad > >>> thing. > >>> > >>> <http://www.youtube.com/v/8CWEDGY3sSM> > >>> I don't know whether the graceful degradation message happens for > >>> everybody, or just me. Obviously it doesn't happen for you, else you > >>> wouldn't release the example. But it does want to make me keep to > lo-tech > >>> solutions for a generally-available help facility. That applies to > >> tooltips > >>> too. If the growth-point of J is hand-helds and Raspberry Pi, then what > >>> hope of showing these animations dependably on Midori or any such > midget > >>> browser? Moreover somebody publishing a jwiki page will be expected to > >>> debug it -- and animations increase the debugging burden. > >>> > >>> Sorry to be so discouraging when you've put such effort into producing > >> such > >>> attractive animations. But considering all the work they entail, and > the > >>> fact not everyone can see them, one has to wonder about > return-on-effort. > >>> (Just my opinion... I don't see the big picture, figuratively speaking) > >>> > >>> IanClark > >>> > >>> > >>> On Wed, Jan 22, 2014 at 5:57 PM, robert therriault < > >> bobtherria...@mac.com>wrote: > >>> > >>>> First off, > >>>> > >>>> Ian you've have done fantastic work on this. Road building is vital to > >>>> development - and your roads are safe, well marked and take us to the > >>>> places we want to discover. Well done. > >>>> > >>>> Second, I agree with Paul about hiding things until people are > >> interested. > >>>> When I have decided that I want more information on a particular part > of > >>>> speech, I will click on the link to find out about it. Putting the > rank > >>>> information on the individual pages also opens up opportunities for > >> showing > >>>> how the ranks can be a little more involved for some parts of speech > >> e.g. > >>>> the Cut conjunction (rank: _ 1/2 _). I think I would be inclined to > >>>> follow the lead of the original vocabulary and put the ranks on the > >>>> information pages of the individual parts of speech and leave them off > >> the > >>>> front page. > >>>> > >>>> Also, when you mentioned keeping you up to date on additions, I did > >>>> recently build an svg animation that the wiki will display in place. > >> They > >>>> take a while to do, so I am not promising to match your prodigious > NuVoc > >>>> output, but if there are particular areas that would benefit from > >> visuals, > >>>> I could work those 'hotspots' for you. You can see it here at the > >> bottom of > >>>> the page. (Click on the red dot) > >>>> http://www.jsoftware.com/jwiki/Vocabulary/plus/Animations This works > >> for > >>>> Safari and Chrome browsers, untested on others. > >>>> > >>>> Cheers, bob > >>>> > >>>> On Jan 22, 2014, at 9:09 AM, Paul Jackson <plj...@gmail.com> wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> I like the idea of hiding things until people are interested. I'll > add > >>>>> that I'm used to the link being on the reason, not the command. > >>>>> See this page <http://www.jsoftware.com/jwiki/NuVoc> *hiding* > details > >>>> of > >>>>> verb ranks — > >>>>> ----------------------------------- > >>>>> See bottom of this > >>>>> page<http://www.jsoftware.com/jwiki/NuVocWithRank#bottomrefs> for > >>>>> commentary articles > >>>>> ------------------------- > >>>>> > >>>>> Paul > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> On Wed, Jan 22, 2014 at 5:43 AM, Ian Clark <earthspo...@gmail.com> > >>>> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>>> Re Rank Information on Nuvoc portal page: I've implemented something > >>>> which > >>>>>> I hope fits the bill for now, until someone can come up with a > >>>> technically > >>>>>> satisfying alternative. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Initially the Nuvoc page comes up as-is, but a prominent link lets > you > >>>> see > >>>>>> an alternative page with ranks shown for every relevant primitive: > >>>>>> "See this page <http://www.jsoftware.com/jwiki/NuVocWithRank> with > >>>> details > >>>>>> of verb ranks" > >>>>>> ...No it's not beautiful, but no one is forced to look at it. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>>> For information about J forums see > http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > >>>> > >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>> For information about J forums see > http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > >>>> > >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > >> > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > >> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
