The Mathematica animations look promising as a tool for J - more incentive for me to learn HTML5.
On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 2:23 AM, Ian Clark <earthspo...@gmail.com> wrote: > Firefox is a pretty popular browser. Indeed it's popul-IST. Chrome and > Safari are tools of empire. If Firefox performance gets fixed, I'd say go > ahead. Otherwise isn't it a bit of a show-stopper? > > To be bold, or realistic? That is the question. > > Meanwhile, vanilla links to your YouTube vids will serve as a temporary > answer for the next month or two. Novice users, whether J or jwiki, have a > confidence-building problem - in fact it's their main problem. I've sat > behind 1-way glass watching trial users go to pieces on hitting a glitch in > software that pretends to be "helpful". Nobody presses "Help" and wants to > be playing Crystal Cave. > > > On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 6:54 AM, robert therriault <bobtherria...@mac.com > >wrote: > > > Thanks Ian, > > > > I loaded up Firefox and had a slightly different experience. The > animation > > box was far too big and clicking the red dot did start the animation > after > > a fashion, but in a scrambled way. If you find a particular animation > that > > you want, it looks as if we could do it for Safari and Chrome (with some > > work I think I could convince Firefox to work as well). I'll keep this on > > the back burner, as I have a few other projects on the go. > > > > Cheers, bob > > > > On Jan 23, 2014, at 9:58 PM, Ian Clark <earthspo...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > @Bob > > > > > > Right! -- at long last I can see what I'm supposed to, using either > > Chrome > > > or Safari. The demos look good, technically. > > > > > > With Firefox (26.0 / up-to-date, Shockwave Flash 11.9.900.170, running > on > > > MBA under Mavericks, or iMac under Snow Leopard) I just see two big > empty > > > black-framed squares with pulsing red buttons. Clicking each button > stops > > > it pulsing, otherwise no-op. Frame remains blank, whatever I do. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Jan 23, 2014 at 4:01 PM, robert therriault < > > bobtherria...@mac.com>wrote: > > > > > >> @Ian > > >> > > >> I agree with you that the links that are used as a reference to the > > flash > > >> video for Moinmoin do not allow the viewer access to an in-place > > >> experience, and this motivated a proof of concept in svg. I know you > are > > >> busy, but I have moved the svg to the top of the page where it should > be > > >> easily seen as a square with a flashing red dot. Clicking the dot > starts > > >> the animation. > > >> > > >> http://www.jsoftware.com/jwiki/Vocabulary/plus/Animations > > >> > > >> If you don't see this, let me know and I'll put the page back to the > way > > >> it was. I am on a Mac as well, so I don't think that is the issue, but > > >> knowing the browser you are using would be useful. If it turns out to > > be a > > >> hit and miss thing for people then I do think that it would be more > of a > > >> distraction than a benefit. > > >> > > >> I completely agree with you in terms of the amount of effort in > creating > > >> the animations compared to return in learning. Short of having an > > animation > > >> team to provide the critical mass of content that would be needed to > > change > > >> the way the viewer uses the site, I think the best solution is to only > > use > > >> animation when it truly saves the 'thousand words'. I still offer that > > to > > >> you (or others) when if would be useful. > > >> > > >> Once again, great work on the Nuvoc. > > >> > > >> Cheers, bob > > >> > > >> On Jan 23, 2014, at 4:56 AM, Ian Clark <earthspo...@gmail.com> wrote: > > >> > > >>> @Bob > > >>> > > >>> Yes I thought the animations were appealing when they first appeared. > > No > > >>> feedback yet on whether they actually help people? -- I'll have to > rely > > >> on > > >>> you and others to collect that info from genuine novices. > > >>> > > >>> Sorry - your sample page doesn't work on my Mac. What I noticed > > recently > > >>> was that wherever an animation was embedded in the page, this message > > now > > >>> comes up instead of the picture (I've tried it on Safari and > Firefox): > > >>> > > >>> Current configuration does not allow embedding of the file > > >>> http://www.youtube.com/v/8CWEDGY3sSM because of its mimetype > > >>> application/x-shockwave-flash.: http://www.youtube.com/v/8CWEDGY3sSM > > >>> > > >>> The above link does work (on the page) though. But then, if only a > few > > >>> people are ever going to see the animation as intended, why not just > > >> offer > > >>> the bare link? Moinmoin is after all a very starved palette when it > > comes > > >>> to deploying fancy gui controls -- and I don't think that's such a > bad > > >>> thing. > > >>> > > >>> <http://www.youtube.com/v/8CWEDGY3sSM> > > >>> I don't know whether the graceful degradation message happens for > > >>> everybody, or just me. Obviously it doesn't happen for you, else you > > >>> wouldn't release the example. But it does want to make me keep to > > lo-tech > > >>> solutions for a generally-available help facility. That applies to > > >> tooltips > > >>> too. If the growth-point of J is hand-helds and Raspberry Pi, then > what > > >>> hope of showing these animations dependably on Midori or any such > > midget > > >>> browser? Moreover somebody publishing a jwiki page will be expected > to > > >>> debug it -- and animations increase the debugging burden. > > >>> > > >>> Sorry to be so discouraging when you've put such effort into > producing > > >> such > > >>> attractive animations. But considering all the work they entail, and > > the > > >>> fact not everyone can see them, one has to wonder about > > return-on-effort. > > >>> (Just my opinion... I don't see the big picture, figuratively > speaking) > > >>> > > >>> IanClark > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> On Wed, Jan 22, 2014 at 5:57 PM, robert therriault < > > >> bobtherria...@mac.com>wrote: > > >>> > > >>>> First off, > > >>>> > > >>>> Ian you've have done fantastic work on this. Road building is vital > to > > >>>> development - and your roads are safe, well marked and take us to > the > > >>>> places we want to discover. Well done. > > >>>> > > >>>> Second, I agree with Paul about hiding things until people are > > >> interested. > > >>>> When I have decided that I want more information on a particular > part > > of > > >>>> speech, I will click on the link to find out about it. Putting the > > rank > > >>>> information on the individual pages also opens up opportunities for > > >> showing > > >>>> how the ranks can be a little more involved for some parts of speech > > >> e.g. > > >>>> the Cut conjunction (rank: _ 1/2 _). I think I would be inclined > to > > >>>> follow the lead of the original vocabulary and put the ranks on the > > >>>> information pages of the individual parts of speech and leave them > off > > >> the > > >>>> front page. > > >>>> > > >>>> Also, when you mentioned keeping you up to date on additions, I did > > >>>> recently build an svg animation that the wiki will display in place. > > >> They > > >>>> take a while to do, so I am not promising to match your prodigious > > NuVoc > > >>>> output, but if there are particular areas that would benefit from > > >> visuals, > > >>>> I could work those 'hotspots' for you. You can see it here at the > > >> bottom of > > >>>> the page. (Click on the red dot) > > >>>> http://www.jsoftware.com/jwiki/Vocabulary/plus/Animations This > works > > >> for > > >>>> Safari and Chrome browsers, untested on others. > > >>>> > > >>>> Cheers, bob > > >>>> > > >>>> On Jan 22, 2014, at 9:09 AM, Paul Jackson <plj...@gmail.com> wrote: > > >>>> > > >>>>> I like the idea of hiding things until people are interested. I'll > > add > > >>>>> that I'm used to the link being on the reason, not the command. > > >>>>> See this page <http://www.jsoftware.com/jwiki/NuVoc> *hiding* > > details > > >>>> of > > >>>>> verb ranks — > > >>>>> ----------------------------------- > > >>>>> See bottom of this > > >>>>> page<http://www.jsoftware.com/jwiki/NuVocWithRank#bottomrefs> for > > >>>>> commentary articles > > >>>>> > ------------------------- > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Paul > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> On Wed, Jan 22, 2014 at 5:43 AM, Ian Clark <earthspo...@gmail.com> > > >>>> wrote: > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> Re Rank Information on Nuvoc portal page: I've implemented > something > > >>>> which > > >>>>>> I hope fits the bill for now, until someone can come up with a > > >>>> technically > > >>>>>> satisfying alternative. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> Initially the Nuvoc page comes up as-is, but a prominent link lets > > you > > >>>> see > > >>>>>> an alternative page with ranks shown for every relevant primitive: > > >>>>>> "See this page <http://www.jsoftware.com/jwiki/NuVocWithRank> > with > > >>>> details > > >>>>>> of verb ranks" > > >>>>>> ...No it's not beautiful, but no one is forced to look at it. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >>>>> For information about J forums see > > http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > > >>>> > > >>>> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >>>> For information about J forums see > > http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > > >>>> > > >>> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >>> For information about J forums see > http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > > >> > > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >> For information about J forums see > http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > > >> > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > -- Devon McCormick, CFA ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
