@Bob Right! -- at long last I can see what I'm supposed to, using either Chrome or Safari. The demos look good, technically.
With Firefox (26.0 / up-to-date, Shockwave Flash 11.9.900.170, running on MBA under Mavericks, or iMac under Snow Leopard) I just see two big empty black-framed squares with pulsing red buttons. Clicking each button stops it pulsing, otherwise no-op. Frame remains blank, whatever I do. On Thu, Jan 23, 2014 at 4:01 PM, robert therriault <bobtherria...@mac.com>wrote: > @Ian > > I agree with you that the links that are used as a reference to the flash > video for Moinmoin do not allow the viewer access to an in-place > experience, and this motivated a proof of concept in svg. I know you are > busy, but I have moved the svg to the top of the page where it should be > easily seen as a square with a flashing red dot. Clicking the dot starts > the animation. > > http://www.jsoftware.com/jwiki/Vocabulary/plus/Animations > > If you don't see this, let me know and I'll put the page back to the way > it was. I am on a Mac as well, so I don't think that is the issue, but > knowing the browser you are using would be useful. If it turns out to be a > hit and miss thing for people then I do think that it would be more of a > distraction than a benefit. > > I completely agree with you in terms of the amount of effort in creating > the animations compared to return in learning. Short of having an animation > team to provide the critical mass of content that would be needed to change > the way the viewer uses the site, I think the best solution is to only use > animation when it truly saves the 'thousand words'. I still offer that to > you (or others) when if would be useful. > > Once again, great work on the Nuvoc. > > Cheers, bob > > On Jan 23, 2014, at 4:56 AM, Ian Clark <earthspo...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > @Bob > > > > Yes I thought the animations were appealing when they first appeared. No > > feedback yet on whether they actually help people? -- I'll have to rely > on > > you and others to collect that info from genuine novices. > > > > Sorry - your sample page doesn't work on my Mac. What I noticed recently > > was that wherever an animation was embedded in the page, this message now > > comes up instead of the picture (I've tried it on Safari and Firefox): > > > > Current configuration does not allow embedding of the file > > http://www.youtube.com/v/8CWEDGY3sSM because of its mimetype > > application/x-shockwave-flash.: http://www.youtube.com/v/8CWEDGY3sSM > > > > The above link does work (on the page) though. But then, if only a few > > people are ever going to see the animation as intended, why not just > offer > > the bare link? Moinmoin is after all a very starved palette when it comes > > to deploying fancy gui controls -- and I don't think that's such a bad > > thing. > > > > <http://www.youtube.com/v/8CWEDGY3sSM> > > I don't know whether the graceful degradation message happens for > > everybody, or just me. Obviously it doesn't happen for you, else you > > wouldn't release the example. But it does want to make me keep to lo-tech > > solutions for a generally-available help facility. That applies to > tooltips > > too. If the growth-point of J is hand-helds and Raspberry Pi, then what > > hope of showing these animations dependably on Midori or any such midget > > browser? Moreover somebody publishing a jwiki page will be expected to > > debug it -- and animations increase the debugging burden. > > > > Sorry to be so discouraging when you've put such effort into producing > such > > attractive animations. But considering all the work they entail, and the > > fact not everyone can see them, one has to wonder about return-on-effort. > > (Just my opinion... I don't see the big picture, figuratively speaking) > > > > IanClark > > > > > > On Wed, Jan 22, 2014 at 5:57 PM, robert therriault < > bobtherria...@mac.com>wrote: > > > >> First off, > >> > >> Ian you've have done fantastic work on this. Road building is vital to > >> development - and your roads are safe, well marked and take us to the > >> places we want to discover. Well done. > >> > >> Second, I agree with Paul about hiding things until people are > interested. > >> When I have decided that I want more information on a particular part of > >> speech, I will click on the link to find out about it. Putting the rank > >> information on the individual pages also opens up opportunities for > showing > >> how the ranks can be a little more involved for some parts of speech > e.g. > >> the Cut conjunction (rank: _ 1/2 _). I think I would be inclined to > >> follow the lead of the original vocabulary and put the ranks on the > >> information pages of the individual parts of speech and leave them off > the > >> front page. > >> > >> Also, when you mentioned keeping you up to date on additions, I did > >> recently build an svg animation that the wiki will display in place. > They > >> take a while to do, so I am not promising to match your prodigious NuVoc > >> output, but if there are particular areas that would benefit from > visuals, > >> I could work those 'hotspots' for you. You can see it here at the > bottom of > >> the page. (Click on the red dot) > >> http://www.jsoftware.com/jwiki/Vocabulary/plus/Animations This works > for > >> Safari and Chrome browsers, untested on others. > >> > >> Cheers, bob > >> > >> On Jan 22, 2014, at 9:09 AM, Paul Jackson <plj...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> > >>> I like the idea of hiding things until people are interested. I'll add > >>> that I'm used to the link being on the reason, not the command. > >>> See this page <http://www.jsoftware.com/jwiki/NuVoc> *hiding* details > >> of > >>> verb ranks — > >>> ----------------------------------- > >>> See bottom of this > >>> page<http://www.jsoftware.com/jwiki/NuVocWithRank#bottomrefs> for > >>> commentary articles > >>> ------------------------- > >>> > >>> Paul > >>> > >>> > >>> On Wed, Jan 22, 2014 at 5:43 AM, Ian Clark <earthspo...@gmail.com> > >> wrote: > >>> > >>>> Re Rank Information on Nuvoc portal page: I've implemented something > >> which > >>>> I hope fits the bill for now, until someone can come up with a > >> technically > >>>> satisfying alternative. > >>>> > >>>> Initially the Nuvoc page comes up as-is, but a prominent link lets you > >> see > >>>> an alternative page with ranks shown for every relevant primitive: > >>>> "See this page <http://www.jsoftware.com/jwiki/NuVocWithRank> with > >> details > >>>> of verb ranks" > >>>> ...No it's not beautiful, but no one is forced to look at it. > >>>> > >>>> > >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > >> > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > >> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
