bob, thanks again for sharing. It works really well and is also a nice JHS example.
On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 9:08 PM, robert therriault <bobtherria...@mac.com>wrote: > Thanks Pascal, > > Believe it or not I did simplify this quite a bit from where I originally > was, based on you previous comments. I'll play around some more to see if I > can slim it down further and still have it intuitive (which is actually one > of the targets that I am aiming for in addition to the 'different things > should display differently') > > I have attached the script of the simple test page to the wiki at > > http://www.jsoftware.com/jwiki/http%3A/www.jsoftware.com/jwiki/BobTherriault/Visualize?action=AttachFile > > If you want to play. > > Cheers, bob > > On Feb 11, 2014, at 9:53 AM, Pascal Jasmin <godspiral2...@yahoo.ca> wrote: > > > I like it. > > > > I'll restate my preference for simpler css. Using colour only if boxes > aren't completely necessary (datatype). > > > > I understand the desire to deal with leading 0 shapes, but I think > leading 1 shapes are what byte people/beginers the most. For instance > assuming that }. and {: produce identical results with 2 elements. > > > > So, if there was a way to only box-decorate items when there is a > leading 1 or 0 dimension, I think it would be very helpful without being as > noisy. > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: robert therriault <bobtherria...@mac.com> > > To: Programming forum <programm...@jsoftware.com> > > Cc: > > Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2014 12:14:14 PM > > Subject: Re: [Jprogramming] problem matching boxed string > > > > Thanks Raul, > > > > I am currently working on the boxing display and you are right, it does > present some different challenges. My plan is to have the script on the > wiki for general amusement later this afternoon. I have put this together > as a way to see the results of the language in a way that I found more > useful and it involves a mix of html, css and J, so as far as coding I > think of myself as a hobbyist rather than a pro. > > > > It should not be hard to change the size of the empty spots and I think > that is a really good idea. The nice thing about CSS is that you can change > appearance across classes, although the complexity can avalanche when you > start to decide how classes will display based on the context of other > classes. > > > > Anyway, I will post when I have the script up on the jwiki. > > > > Cheers, bob > > > > On Feb 11, 2014, at 8:51 AM, Raul Miller <rauldmil...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > >> This looks promising. > >> > >> I currently have two quibbles which you might want to reject: > >> > >> First, the additional markup seems to get in the way for some typical > >> cases. I can see the need for leading 1 dimensions and embedded zero > >> dimensions. I understand the idea of consistent display of information, > but > >> there's so much going on when arrays have no zeros or ones in their > shape > >> and I can't help but wonder if a reduced complexity presentation might > be > >> nice, at least as a later option? > >> > >> Second, when there are zeros in the shape, the placeholders are the same > >> size and "shape" (ha ha, get it? shape... eh... maybe you had to be > there) > >> as when data is present. Maybe you could shrink the cell size for empty > >> cells? > >> > >> I should also probably watch it again for how you display boxed data. > One > >> of my worries is that with so much decoration on "flat" arrays that > boxing > >> will get lost in the noise. > >> > >> That said, from a user point of view, I can totally imagine wanting to > be > >> able to customize this, and I can also imagine not wanting to touch it > and > >> wanting it to lead me off to some other page that shows me how to reason > >> about it, and I can also imagine wanting to take the data and wanting to > >> play with it and render it in other ways. So I guess also there are > plenty > >> of opportunities for the future. > >> > >> If I were a manager, though, I might want you to ship it right now, the > way > >> it is. > >> > >> Fortunately, you don't have to please me. I do not know what I would > want > >> if I were just starting. We need more beginners, and maybe that is > >> something we can do something about, over the next few weeks and months. > >> > >> Thanks, > >> > >> -- > >> Raul > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 10:21 AM, robert therriault > >> <bobtherria...@mac.com>wrote: > >> > >>> Just an update on the visualization of J results. > >>> > >>> I have done a second video/blog post on using CSS and HTML to display > >>> results on JHS. It provides examples of a system that allows you to > >>> distinguish between 1 $ 1 , 1 1 $1 , and 1 as well as displaying > arrays > >>> with zeros in the shape such as 0 1 $ 1 and 1 0 $ 1. > >>> > >>> Blog post is here: > >>> > http://bobtherriault.wordpress.com/2014/02/11/using-css-and-html-to-display-the-shapes-of-arrays-on-the-jhs-platform/?relatedposts_exclude=513 > >>> > >>> Cheers, bob > >>> > >>> On Feb 4, 2014, at 8:25 AM, robert therriault <bobtherria...@mac.com> > >>> wrote: > >>> > >>>> > >>>> On Feb 4, 2014, at 5:29 AM, Raul Miller <rauldmil...@gmail.com> > wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> Of course you will also get an error if you try to combine one of > >>>>> those with another array of the wrong shape. Error conditions are one > >>>>> of the cases where I like getting the shapes of arrays. > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> Sometimes the zeros can affect the result even though they can't be > seen > >>> in the display > >>>> > >>>> $ ( 0 2 3 $ 4), 5 7 $5 > >>>> 1 5 7 > >>>> $ (0 0 2 3 $ 4), 5 7 $5 > >>>> 1 1 5 7 > >>>> > >>>> I am looking for ways to give the programmer some 'leverage' into > these > >>> situations by the ways that shapes are displayed > >>>> > >>>>> One of my favorite tricks, if I am getting an error from an > expression > >>>>> that seems to be due to of a lack of shapeliness (like a length > error) > >>>>> is to replace the last verb with $ (or a variation like ;&$ or $&.> > or > >>>>> ;&($ L:0) or whatever else). > >>>>> > >>>>> And that brings up another issue related to finding the shapes of > >>>>> things: the shape inside a box will typically be different from the > >>>>> shape outside the box (these shapes are "independent" of each other). > >>>> > >>>> Yep, I am working on boxes at the moment and it is a challenge for > >>> display while retaining the independent shape of contents. > >>>> > >>>>> Also, the shape of transitory arrays (intermediate results) can also > >>>>> matter. So familiarity with debugging tools and techniques can be > >>>>> crucial - sometimes even more important for coding than familiarity > >>>>> with shape and rank issues. (These are not, properly speaking, a part > >>>>> of the language itself so much as they are a part of the environment. > >>>>> But that's something of a technicality.) > >>>> > >>>> No doubt. Display can't replace knowing how rank and shape work. I am > >>> hoping that a little better way of displaying results will make it > easier > >>> to see the differences and may emphasize the importance of > understanding > >>> the concepts to those learning the language - that would be me! > >>>> > >>>> Cheers, bob > >>>> > >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>> For information about J forums see > http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > > > >>> > >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > >>> > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
