On 1/8/2017 5:54 AM, Jakov Sosic wrote:
On 01/08/2017 11:04 AM, Fabrice Bacchella wrote:
And that's for something that for a given environment
never change, have no options. So dropping a standard
file that is hand made once in a lifetime is enough for
the vast majority of people.
Exactly my point...
I never really understood all the blog posts about people migrating to
other tools, and didn't quite understand bunch of the remarks and
reasons given in those posts...let alone agree with them.
But, becoming such a time sink even for a veteran is kinda depressing. I
can even see my self writing such a blog post in the future :D
Sure, organizations having 10+ devops engineers can afford to allocate
one of them 0.5/1.0 FTE on puppet alone, but smaller shops with 2-5
devops engineers just can't afford it.
Learning curve for a newcomer is steep high, but even once you're
seasoned puppet engineer, amount of changes happening is overwhelming.
It just becomes a time sink, and wastes a lot of your time just to keep
your code base up to date.
And sincerely I don't see any obvious benefit of some of these additions
(epp, moving from lose to strict parameter/variable types, ...).
It's something to think about: is puppet becoming it's own goal and
purpose (losing sight of what it should be - a tool that solves actual
problems)?
To be honest I never understood some of the blogs either, but this
thread has clarified it for me. To phrase it somewhat unkindly, Some
sysadmins when faced with software engineering want to go back to shell
scripts.
Are we seriously going to complain that we can enforce input validation
of types and structures? Are you mad? I work on a 10 year old 100k+ LOC
of damned MANIFEST code and I daily curse every committer who didn't
think about their data type and structure. We have a joke on on our
team, "true, false, and string. My least favorite data type." And it's
everywhere in the code and hard to blindly rip out.
Just last month it took us three days to sort out a define with
svc_check and svc_checks. Now we force array validation on svc_checks,
removed svc_check, and dropped a ton of confusing code along the way. Is
someone going to get bit when they pass a string? Yes. Will they figure
it out in a minute or two because the validation fail will tell them
exactly what to provide? Yes.
I would argue that our experience is working against us when it comes
to the new code. Everything is a string and we massage the data later is
how most of us worked. Also we may know exactly what we want to manage.
Now Puppet has the tools to validate input and with in module data
easily support just about any config. Sure it looks more complex and
hard to tell where data is coming from if you haven't seen the style
before, but simplifies templates, compares, regex, booleans, and
everything else we were doing. This code can be USED by anyone, but
takes slightly longer to understand.
Whether the module is overwrought is certainly a conversation worth
having, but let's separate that from the upgrade in technology.
Ramin
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