Hi, I'm choosing to forward this to python-committers because I don't think python-ideas is a reasonable place to discuss CoC decisions.
I think the action taken by Brett (apparently decided with Titus and a mysterious "conduct working group") is not the right one: - a definitive ban is an extremely strong decision that should only be taken if nothing else works. May I remind that Anatoly was able to post prolifically and unconstructively for several years, being warned several times, before being finally banned? Comparatively, this one ban seems expeditive. - the reasons given, to me, don't make sense at all. The word "n-----" is not a forbidden word if you want to describe, precisely, linguistics and the relativity of meanings (instead of actually *qualifying* someone or a groupe of people), which is what the OP claimed to do. The other reasons look like a similar kind of over-reaction. Even if something there looks inappropriate to you, it's still enough of a grey area that a ban is absolutely the wrong answer. I deduce that it's ok to say "slave" in a discussion instead of using an expression such as "the s-word". Why one term is allowed and the other, not, may be clear to Americans (or, perhaps, a large fraction thereof), but hey, it's not clear to other people around the world. Banning a (apparently) Dutch person because he doesn't understand American standards of offense is not only unfair, but it makes our community *not* inclusive of other cultures. As a French person myself, I could not, even if I wanted to, turn myself into an authentic American: what is obvious to you is not obvious to me and it would be extremely brutal and humiliating to ban me for having the wrong nationality and the wrong culture. I will ask: please consider the work and effort that it *already* takes for other people to adapt to standards of discussion that are, obviously, those of a particular culture. Otherwise you're raising barriers even more, not lowering them. At the end of it, it looks like we have a real moderation problem. python-ideas threads frequently veer out into unconstructive back-and-forths (and, well, that's not *only* the ethically-sensitive threads). The CoC is being applied erratically, sometimes precipitately, by apparently overworked and emotionally exhausted moderators, with bad consequences on the quality of the decisions. Moderators should not become emotionally exhausted (which means we need a more adequate discussion system *and* a more collegial, spread out, team of moderators); and, if they become so, I would humbly suggest it's a better idea - even if not always easy to follow - to step back and take some rest than make decisions in such a state. We also need real guidelines to the moderators as to which decision on the scale of possible decisions to apply, depending on severity of the offense / violation and on the "offendor"'s past behaviour. In the end, I hope we can set ourselves better moderation standards. As for me, I find the current situation very worrying, including for my ability to contribute constructively to Python. If I have to fear banning for every word that I say and that might be deemed inappropriate in the moderators' culture, I might just as well leave instead of feeling stressed and anguished everytime I post something. I would not want to live this in paid work: why would I endure it as a volunteer, while my main gratification should be the pleasure taken in contributing? Regards Antoine. ----- Message Transféré ----- Date : Thu, 20 Sep 2018 11:56:05 -0700 De : Brett Cannon <brett-+zn9apsxkcednm+yrof...@public.gmane.org> À : Jacco van Dorp <j.van.dorp-i74+SDIRvn1mR6Xm/wn...@public.gmane.org> Cc : python-ideas <python-ideas-+zn9apsxkcednm+yrof...@public.gmane.org> Groupe de discussion : gmane.comp.python.ideas Sujet : CoC violation (was: Retire or reword the "Beautiful is better than ugly" Zen clause) The below email was reported to the PSF board for code of conduct violations and then passed on to the conduct working group to decide on an appropriate response. Based on the WG's recommendation and after discussing it with Titus, the decision has been made to ban Jacco from python-ideas. Trivializing assault, using the n-word, and making inappropriate comments about someone's mental stability are all uncalled for and entirely unnecessary to carry on a reasonable discourse of conversation that remains welcoming to others. _______________________________________________ python-committers mailing list python-committers@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
