Apparently it's this one: https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-ideas/2018-September/053482.html
By the way, regardless of this single case, I would like people to think of the broader issue we're having. It's more than a single contentious decision. Regards Antoine. Le 20/09/2018 à 22:33, Alex Gaynor a écrit : > Is there a copy of the original email? (I'm not a regular python-ideas > reader) > > Based on Brett's description though, the content sounds very far over > the line, and I wouldn't want to interfere with the WG's decision. > > Alex > > On Thu, Sep 20, 2018 at 4:25 PM Antoine Pitrou <anto...@python.org > <mailto:anto...@python.org>> wrote: > > > Hi, > > I'm choosing to forward this to python-committers because I don't think > python-ideas is a reasonable place to discuss CoC decisions. > > I think the action taken by Brett (apparently decided with Titus and a > mysterious "conduct working group") is not the right one: > > - a definitive ban is an extremely strong decision that should only be > taken if nothing else works. May I remind that Anatoly was able to post > prolifically and unconstructively for several years, being warned > several times, before being finally banned? Comparatively, this one ban > seems expeditive. > > - the reasons given, to me, don't make sense at all. The word "n-----" > is not a forbidden word if you want to describe, precisely, linguistics > and the relativity of meanings (instead of actually *qualifying* someone > or a groupe of people), which is what the OP claimed to do. The other > reasons look like a similar kind of over-reaction. Even if something > there looks inappropriate to you, it's still enough of a grey area that > a ban is absolutely the wrong answer. > > I deduce that it's ok to say "slave" in a discussion instead of using an > expression such as "the s-word". Why one term is allowed and the other, > not, may be clear to Americans (or, perhaps, a large fraction thereof), > but hey, it's not clear to other people around the world. Banning a > (apparently) Dutch person because he doesn't understand American > standards of offense is not only unfair, but it makes our community > *not* inclusive of other cultures. > > As a French person myself, I could not, even if I wanted to, turn myself > into an authentic American: what is obvious to you is not obvious to me > and it would be extremely brutal and humiliating to ban me for having > the wrong nationality and the wrong culture. I will ask: please > consider the work and effort that it *already* takes for other people to > adapt to standards of discussion that are, obviously, those of a > particular culture. Otherwise you're raising barriers even more, not > lowering them. > > > At the end of it, it looks like we have a real moderation problem. > python-ideas threads frequently veer out into unconstructive > back-and-forths (and, well, that's not *only* the ethically-sensitive > threads). The CoC is being applied erratically, sometimes > precipitately, by apparently overworked and emotionally exhausted > moderators, with bad consequences on the quality of the decisions. > > Moderators should not become emotionally exhausted (which means we need > a more adequate discussion system *and* a more collegial, spread out, > team of moderators); and, if they become so, I would humbly suggest it's > a better idea - even if not always easy to follow - to step back and > take some rest than make decisions in such a state. We also need real > guidelines to the moderators as to which decision on the scale of > possible decisions to apply, depending on severity of the offense / > violation and on the "offendor"'s past behaviour. > > In the end, I hope we can set ourselves better moderation standards. As > for me, I find the current situation very worrying, including for my > ability to contribute constructively to Python. If I have to fear > banning for every word that I say and that might be deemed inappropriate > in the moderators' culture, I might just as well leave instead of > feeling stressed and anguished everytime I post something. I would not > want to live this in paid work: why would I endure it as a volunteer, > while my main gratification should be the pleasure taken in > contributing? > > Regards > > Antoine. > > > > ----- Message Transféré ----- > > Date : Thu, 20 Sep 2018 11:56:05 -0700 > De : Brett Cannon <brett-+zn9apsxkcednm+yrof...@public.gmane.org > <mailto:brett-%2bzn9apsxkcednm%2byrof...@public.gmane.org>> > À : Jacco van Dorp > <j.van.dorp-i74+SDIRvn1mR6Xm/wn...@public.gmane.org > <mailto:wn...@public.gmane.org>> > Cc : python-ideas > <python-ideas-+zn9apsxkcednm+yrof...@public.gmane.org > <mailto:python-ideas-%2bzn9apsxkcednm%2byrof...@public.gmane.org>> > Groupe de discussion : gmane.comp.python.ideas > Sujet : CoC violation (was: Retire or reword the "Beautiful is better > than ugly" Zen clause) > > > The below email was reported to the PSF board for code of conduct > violations and then passed on to the conduct working group to decide on > an appropriate response. > > Based on the WG's recommendation and after discussing it with Titus, the > decision has been made to ban Jacco from python-ideas. Trivializing > assault, using the n-word, and making inappropriate comments about > someone's mental stability are all uncalled for and entirely > unnecessary to carry on a reasonable discourse of conversation that > remains welcoming to others. > _______________________________________________ > python-committers mailing list > python-committers@python.org <mailto:python-committers@python.org> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers > Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/ > > > > -- > All that is necessary for evil to succeed is for good people to do nothing. _______________________________________________ python-committers mailing list python-committers@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers Code of Conduct: https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
