Hi Lori,

I'm sorry I didn't respond to your message yesterday, I ran out of time last night.  Yes I have been having urine problems for a good six months and do not know why either.  I had my SP done 5 years ago and had no problems with UTI's for four years except for maybe one or two.  Then I started getting more sediment in my urine and increased pain.  The pain is the tricky part because I have so much burning pain anyway and especially in my gut and back that I was wondering if it was just more nerve pain bugging me.  But the pain gets more localized and severe when the sediment shows up in my bag.

So my urologist kept giving me antibiotics, although only 5-7 day treatment (which made me wonder if it was long enough) and the pain would get better and the sediment would go away.  Then the last two times I was on an antibiotic, the sediment would show up in the middle of my treatment and the pain never really went away.  So, then he had me start doing the vinegar and water irrigation, which also didn't really seem to work and the pain was still bothering me.  So then he had me do a ultrasound, abdominal CT scan, and cystoscopy and everything looks good.  So he is just as stumped as I am and thought it was maybe my nerve pain as well.  Then I went all of March with no problems and then started with the symptoms two weeks ago and they have gotten worse and worse, even with the d-mannose, which I tried out of desperation seven days ago.

I didn't call my urologist again because I just went through all this with him 6-8 weeks ago and I thought he would tell me the same story, that I have the bacteria there as always, and to try to stick it out since I have no fever or blood in my urine.  Although, I never have a fever with my UTI's.  So I finally called this morning to request having a culture done of my urine and took it down this afternoon.  I have felt horrible all day, my bladder feels like I have a rock sitting on it, it's burning and aching severely, and I feel a little nauseous.

I am never told what the bug is from my urologist.  He just usually puts me on antibiotic, then waits for the culture to make sure it is the right antibiotic.  I am definitely going to ask what it is this time.  I'm not sure if the lab will tell me without the doctor's permission.

I really did not want to get on another antibiotic, which is why I have been trying to tough it out for the past two weeks, but the pain has just gotten worse, too much to deal with.  That's why I was hoping that the mannose would work.  I don't understand why I'm even getting these UTI's again after going so long without them.  It's so frustrating as you know!  I'm going to change my tube this weekend to see if that helps and will most likely be getting a antibiotic tomorrow or Friday.  I probably will try doing the irrigation with the vinegar and water myself, doing it twice a day for a month to see if that makes a difference.  I think I will also mention the Mandelamine to my doctor and see what he has to say.

I read that article you posted as well.  I think it was on the care/cure forum.

Corie
----- Original Message -----
To: Quad
Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 12:23 PM
Subject: Re: [QUAD-L] D-Mannose

 
 I feel like I'm butting in here, Corie, but I hope my last lengthy email wasn't too boring.  I've just HAD IT with UTIs.  And my last resort may be to go back to irrigating daily with a vinegar/water solution.  I'm having sludge again.  Not as bad as 6 yrs ago but still.
 
I, too, am going to look up Mandelamine
 
I had asked people if they kept track of WHAT TYPE OF BUG they had and WHEN.
 
Corie ... Why haven't you got a culture & sensitivity done yet since you're symptomatic?  (remember to tell whomever takes your sample to the lab to write "DO SENSITIVITIES REGARDLESS OF GROWTH")
 
Also, we've been out of touch privately for awhile (been one crisis after another here for a year!).  Have you been having more urine problems of late?  I have a slew of free cell minutes and would love to talk to you again at a convenient time.
 
The thing that scares me the most is this article (below) on antibiodics & D-Mannose, etc (I see I saved it in my notes on March 9th, 2003! But didn't copy the source.  I'm sure it came up in my google search results) The resistance to antibiodics is increasing and I had no REAL worries until I got the bug Proteus (evil incarnate) AND Cipro doesn't do anything for me anymore.
 
Note below in the article too that D-Mannose can be injected directly into the bladder too.  But if it's not E-coli ... useless.
Best to find out what bug is in your urine before even trying Mannose or Mandelamine.
 
"Urinary tract or bladder infection is both a painful condition and a major cause of doctor visits. Every year 6 million Americans suffer at least one occurrence of this common problem and 20% of this group experience more than one episode. Antibiotics are routinely used for 10 days or longer to combat the infection and provide relief.
 
Unfortunately, there is growing evidence that the sought after relief is getting harder and harder to achieve for three very important reasons:
 
1. Only a few of the commonly used antibiotics achieve adequate levels in the urinary tract to be fully effective; 2. The infection causing bacteria attach to the mucosal wall of the bladder making removal difficult; and 3. Infection causing bacteria are becoming increasingly resistant to antibiotics. The third reason points out the growing concern that comes with the use of antibiotics. Pathogenic bacteria are becoming resistant. Recent data indicates that 20% of the patients admitted to a New York hospital are resistant to standard antibiotic therapy. The problem is even greater in the rest of the world, especially third world countries.
 
With respect to the first reason, there is little we can do to increase the level of antibiotics in the urinary tract. The second reason, however, offers the potential means to maintain urinary tract health and reduce the ultimate use of antibiotics. It stands to reason that, if the bacteria cannot attach to the mucosal wall of the bladder, they will pass from the body in the urine and no infection will occur .We know that the most common bacteria involved in urinary tract infections is E. coli. We also know that E. coli is mannose sensitive.
 
How does this relate to maintaining urinary tract health? E. coli tend to bind to the epithelial tissues on the interior surface of the bladder. This ability of E. coli to bind to bladder tissue provides a home for subsequent growth and infection. In the presence of Mannose, E. coli exhibits a greater affinity for the Man- nose than the epithelial surface of the bladder. The net result is that the E. coli either rapidly detaches from the bladder wall and attaches to the Mannose or attaches to the Mannose before it can attach to the bladder. The freely floating E. coli (attached to the Mannose) is now readily eliminated on urination.
 
If the preceding is true, why hasn't Mannose been used routinely for maintaining urinary tract health? Apparently, the reason for this can be found in a single paper published on the use of Mannose in one patient. The authors of this case report erroneously reported that Mannose was not orally absorbed.
 
It was not until 1997 that Dr. Hudson Freeze published a clarifying paper showing that Mannose is orally absorbed in both normal individuals and patients with Carbohydrate Deficient Glycoprotein Syndrome. His work showed that supplementation with Mannose increases blood levels in a dose dependent manner. Peak blood levels are observed after 1-2 hours with a clearance halftime of 4 hours. Clearance speed is critical to how quickly Mannose will reach the bladder. No side effects were observed. Dr. Hudson concludes, "These results establish the feasibility of using Mannose as a potential therapeutic dietary supplement."
 
What is Mannose/D-Mannose? It is a carbohydrate sugar with a molecular weight of 180.16. Its low molecular weight and water solubility are keys to its rapid absorption and excretion. Man- nose is naturally produced in the body.
 
Supporting Evidence for the use of Mannose as a supplement to maintain and support urinary tract health follows:
 
A. Adherence of E. coli was inhibited by Mannose [1. Med Microbiol1982 Aug 15 (3):303-16] B. A 10 % solution of Mannose injected directly into the bladder significantly Reduced bacteriuria within I day ( efficacy is dependent on concentration of Mannose & bacteria) [Urol Res 198311(2):97-102] C. Irrigation of the bladder with 6% Mannose inhibited bacterial adherence: " As 6% Mannose effectively inhibited type 1 pili and also had some antibacterial activity, it may reduce urinary tract infection if used as irrigation solution." [Urol Res 1993 21 (6):401-5 U. of Basel Switzerland- Urology Clinics, Gasser T.C.] D. P-fimbriated E. coli is the most prevalent microorganism in acute un. ... P-fimbriated E. coli is Mannose sensitive (readily attaches to Mannose). [J. Chemo- therapy 1999 Oct; (5):357-62] E. Mannose inhibition of the adherence of E. coli is dose dependent. ...With the maximal inhibitory dose, adherence was reduced by approximately 80%. (Invest. Urol. 1981 Mar: 18(5):364-70F] F. Mannose inhibits E. coli adherence to urinary bladder epithelium. [Urol. Res. 1985 13(2):79-8 ] G. Mannose for Bladder and Kidney infections -Jonathan Wright M.D., Townsend Letter for Doctors & Patients, 1999 July p.96-98
 
Summary: Mannose, taken as directed, can help maintain a healthy urinary tract by binding with infectious bacteria like E. coli before it can attach to the bladder wall and cause infection. The Man- nose-bound  bacteria is readily excreted in the urine. Mannose is orally absorbed and can be given as a drink, capsule or tablet.
 
Dosage: For maximum effect, take 1.5-2.5 gInS (one level teaspoon of WRI D-Mannose is approximately 2 grams) every 3-4 hours during waking hours for 48 hours.  Repeat as necessary.
 
 
-------Original Message-------
 
Date: 04/19/05 22:07:59
Subject: Re: [QUAD-L] D-Mannose
 
What is Mandelamine?  I'm not sure if the bug is e-coli because I haven't had it tested by my urologist, but I do know that d-mannose won't work if it's not e-coli.

Thanks, Corie
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 11:18 AM
Subject: Re: [QUAD-L] D-Mannose

If your problem is e-coli, d-mannose may work. I'm not a proponent of indwelling catheters but since that is what you are dealing with, I'd suggest you make your bladder inhospitable to any bacteria. High doses of vitamin C can make your urine acidic. If you take Mandelamine with vitamin C, you may avoid most infections. The trick is to drink like a fish and check your urine ph level.
 
hope that helps
John
P.S.you need a script for the mandelamine
 

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