Ok, I have to chime in here.
bad paraphrase: I Knew R:Base, and VB your No R:Base!
One of the biggest reasons for R:Bases success is that it is hand down
fastest database application system out there. With its compact command set
and robust database, it allowed developers to create applications for
customers that run for years.
Its simple design has allows developers the speed to economically upgrade
and maintain, with out a major re-write.
When, I did programming In VB, It could take several days to setup a form
with 3rd party semi-region (that I had to pay extra for because VB doesn't
come with all the functionality you need), and I would long for the days of
several hours in R:Base.
If you want to keep you current customers, I would suggest you look more
strongly at Tango than VB.
With Tango you can develop a robust Web app very fast, with VB, Start
getting out you check book for all the Developers your going to have to pay.
I know from experience, I was Lead on a conversion project to VB, 4
developers and 2 outside VB Experts and a Year and Half later, we were just
finishing up.
-With R:base, Your customer would ask for a change and you could say "No,
Problem, as a Matter of Fact, I can do It here in about an hour" customer ->
"do it"
-With VB, Your customer would ask for a change and you could say "Well,
That's a redesign of the form, I will need to go back to my office and
rethink the form, It'll approx. 15 hours @ $100/hour" customer -> "WHAT!"
So if you take the VB path start looking for customers with deeeeep pockets,
and, oooh!, by the way there are 3 million other VB programmers looking for
the same deep pockets customer.
Tango, Is a middleware product, It does Java, JavaScript, server side Java,
runs batch files, does XML, COM/DCOM, DOM, and much more, with the ease of
Click, Drag and Drop...
I just linked a DLL designed for C++/VB into Tango and had the object create
and full running test TAF up in an hour and deployed on production database
while customer was online with me over web cam.
I thank Razzak every day for introducing me to Tango.
Ben Johansen
www.pcforge.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ben Petersen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2001 3:20 PM
Subject: Re: IF VB IS SO GOOD WHY ARE YOU USING RBASE!
> Manuel,
>
> I think you should quit holding back and just speak your mind <big
> g>.
>
> It's interesting what different people get from what they read... I
> think not being able to hear and see the writer is a major
> disadvantage.
>
> This is what I got/didn't get from Mikes post:
>
> Tango's great as far as it goes (dynamic data driven web pages),
> VB is just a more versatile language/tool. We all know VB carries a
> big price in terms of becoming proficient.
>
> Mike's empathy comment could be taken as a jab, but by the
> same token he's always contributed generously to the list as well
> with code to help out, so I'd choose to assume he sincerely meant
> no harm.
>
> And I don't take compliments of VB, C++, and Java as degrading to
> RBase. They are complementary tools to Rbase/Oterro, like
> Tango, and aren't chosen to the exclusion of RBase.
>
> I bought R:Tango and am still trying to decide which route to go. I
> believe Mike's right, in that VB & Java open up many more
> possibilities... but my head hurts when I read VB instructional
> books and Tango looks like a shorter hop.
>
> And I like my Java black, no sugar.... _please_; but those days are
> gone (like System V). I'm just glad to have choices and people like
> you and Mike to add some light to the heat.
>
> Ben Petersen
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 12 Jul 2001, at 22:44, Manuel de Aguiar wrote:
>
> > Hello Mike,
> > Oh BOY, here I am again, rocking the boat! Oh well I guess this
post wont
> > make me many friends ........
> > Mike, you keep praising a language (VB) but fail to mention how
Microsoft has
> > screwed all the developers and end users that have loyally supported
that
> > platform for years. With the advent of the VB.NET platform now 90% of
complex
> > VB 6.0 code that developers have written will BECOMES OBSOLETE. Major
costly
> > rework will be needed by the developers in order to make it work with
the new
> > incompatible version of VB. This is a serious issue that you purposely
downplay
> > in your posts. This obsolesces was purposely created by Microsoft. I
say
> > purposely because VB6.0 has only been out for a few years. Microsoft
actions
> > clearly demonstrate how little they care about their developers and
their
> > customers. Even articles in VB Magazine, a whore of Microsoft, print
the
> > complaints of developers facing a tremendous cost to keep their
applications
> > viable caused by the incompatibility of two most recent versions. Of
course, if
> > you have a deployed application in VB4.0 or VB5.0 forget upgrade and a
> > reasonable cost.
> >
> > It is very different for a users of RBase 2.11 to complaint that
they have
> > to spend some bucks to move to RBase for Windows. This is a change of
operating
> > system and the upgrade of a 12 years ++ old database engine. But for a
customer
> > that has finished paying a developer for an application in VB6.0 to now
have to
> > pay BIG BUCKS just so that their new application does not become
obsolete is A
> > CRIME.
> >
> > I can just imagine your comments about RBase Technology if version
7.0 has
> > the same degree of incompatibility with version 6.5 as VB6.0 has with
VB.NET.
> > I have read your numerous posting on the list server where you subtly
badger
> > RBase by praising the superiority of VB, Your constant evangelizing of
VB to
> > lure developers to leave RBase and follow the yellow brick road to MS.
I wonder
> > WHY ARE YOU USING RBASE! In your comments, you give Rbase a small "at
boy"
> > with a light tap on the back with your right hand and a left hook to the
gut
> > with the other. Why do you do this?
> >
> > Today I got off the wrong side of the bed and your numerous posts
praising
> > VB and badgering RBase and Tango rub me the wrong way. I am sorry if I
sound a
> > bit irritated but I AM. You have the right to your opinions and to
express them
> > PUBLICLY just like I have mine. What irritates me is that this list
server is
> > an open list server. That means that customers, potential customers, as
well as
> > developers participate. I do not want any potential customer that can
be MY
> > CUSTOMER to be mislead by unchallenged negative commentaries. This is a
> > wonderful forum to learn and improve our skills as developers where
customers
> > and potential customer can get a feel about the RBase Developer
community. To
> > see you use this RBase forum to subtly badger the product and praise
Microsoft
> > is irritating to me. It would be like me driving a Ford and telling the
> > mechanics and the customer at the Ford dealership what a piece of crap
it is and
> > how great is the Honda I also own. You have the right to say anything
you want
> > publicly but I also have the same right to rebuttal it.
> >
> > I apologize to the RBase customers that participate on this list
server if
> > my comments has offended. Your decision to purchase and support RBase
> > Technologies was and is a SOUND DECISION. If you are a potential RBase
customer
> > do not let these attack suede you. RBase is the most robust stable
engine in
> > its class out there. It is the fastest deployment platform for COMPLEX
> > APPLICATIONS in the market. RBase has TREMENDOUS scalebility. Is is
not design
> > for force you into a more expensive system when you grow. It has
tremendous
> > developers tools. These tools translate into faster development and if
It can
> > be developed in less time IT WILL SIMPLY COST YOU LESS.
> >
> > I have been involved in Database Development since 1985. After
> > frustrations with MSBasic and dBase, I chose RBase because it was the
most
> > complete and robust database environment, from a developer perspective,
on the
> > market. I remember how dBase was the word in everybody's lip and how
this
> > pseudo relational database was praise by all the "experts". RBase has
been
> > around for a long long time and during this time it has evolved and
improved to
> > the best database engine in its class in the world.
> >
> > RBASE CUSTOMERS YOU HAVE MADE THE RIGHT CHOICE, NOT ONLY BECAUSE OF THE
PRODUCT
> > YOU HAVE PURCHASED BUT THE PEOPLE THAT DRIVE THE PRODUCT.
> >
> > There are many many examples of how RBase Technologies has LISTENED
to
> > their customers and developers and deliver solutions and not excuses.
All the
> > years that I have been associated with Rbase the main theme has always
been to
> > make their products better and backward compatible. Who else has a
database
> > engine today that can be accessed by a computer running DOS, by another
computer
> > running ANY VERSION of current Windows, by users on the Internet, and
soon by
> > Linux computers, all at the same time? How about the recent change of a
new
> > command from PHONE to RPHONE. RBase Technologies recognized that once
the
> > command is out there, developers that implement it will be faced with
additional
> > time to modify the deployed code and it will impose an added expense to
the end
> > user to pay for the changes. Thus, they change the command IMMEDIATELY.
> >
> > Another example of how RBase have strode to provide its customers
and
> > developers backward compatibility is the R> in the windows environment.
To
> > accomplish what can be done from the [R>] R prompt in other languages is
simply
> > impossible. Oracle's and Pervassive's R> prompt counter parts are the
most
> > archaic and Mickey Mouse tools that I have ever had the displeasure of
using.
> > There are many, many, many more examples of how RBase ACTIONS have
clearly
> > demonstrated to me that TOP in their priorities is THE CUSTOMERS and the
> > developers. I like this because it is exactly the way I handle by
business
> > practice.
> >
> > OK I am done. Now you can pounce on me. I have my arms over my
head in a
> > fetal position ready to take the hits. At least the acidity of my
stomach has
> > gone down and I did not have to bite the dog and kick the neighbor.
> >
> > Manuel
> >
> >
> > Mike Byerley wrote:
> >
> > > The principle difference between using Tango vs. VB is Tango has one
use, VB
> > > many. I empathize with people that have already invested time
learning
> > > Tango.
> >
> > Left Hook to the GUT!!!!!!!
> >
> > > I think back to 92 and 93, a company I was working with had a person
in
> > > house with VBA experience and was doing a few things in Excel and
Access. I
> > > was adamant that I wasn't going to learn VB (at the time I was doing a
> > > little work in C), what with the robustness of RBase language!
> >
> > A little tap on the back..... I think?
> >
> > > It was two years later when I changed my mind. In retrospect (isn't
> > > hindsight always a little clearer) wish I had investigated a little
deeper
> > > so I could have made an informed decision, based in fact, instead of
an
> > > emotional one, based in the belief that the one big arrow in my quiver
would
> > > be sufficient for any work I would do.
> >
> > Another left hook!
> >
> > > With VB you speak the language of perhaps several hundred thousand
> > > developers. Also, the curly brace deal from C++ is present in java
script.
> > > The structure of jscript is similar to C and as I have said
previously,
> > > jscript should also be an addition to your toolbox.
> >
> > Yet another left!
> >
> > > Hell, if I was 25 years old, I would learn Tango and also how to
Tango,
> > > but at this stage (only 5 years to social security. yuk!) I want to
focus a
> > > little more on the things I know will offer me the most utility to
provide
> > > the best bang for the buck for myself and my customers.
> >
> > A hook with a joke!
> >
> > >
> > > mike
> >
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------
> >
> > Subject:
> > Re: RBWIN, Moving a simple app to the Internet
> > Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 11:24:43 -0500
> > From: "Mike Byerley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > References: 1 , 2
> >
> > Apart from the obvious (web server or hosting provider that will
accommodate
> > your Rbase / Oterro drivers installation), you won't need anything else.
I
> >
> > Left Hook to the Gut!!
> >
> >
> > would go ahead and dive into VB with gusto, but I believe you would be
best
> > to adopt the VB.net approach (you can get the beta2 VB.net development
> > environment free download or S&H for the CD, keeping in mind, I would
not
> > install a beta on any machine that is your primary development machine.
You
> > cannot predict that the Beta could be excised successfully or
overwritten by
> > the final version). VB.net allows you to start a project as either a
> > standard Windows application or a Web based application and after that
> > selection, the process in nearly identical (from my reading, not from
> > experience). You create the forms and they are rendered as html at
runtime
> > from the compiled project that runs on the server. No web classes to
mess
> > with, and all the events and procedures are programmed just like the
Windows
> > environment (with the events and procedures tied to the form). Pretty
> > slick. But you can also just go ahead with VB6 and follow the updates
on
> > VB.net at www.devx.com as I do and any new application you are
developing,
> > follow the model to make it as easy as possible to upgrade later to
VB.net.
> >
> > mike
> >
> >
> >
>
>
