If I was a carpenter there would be times I would use a drill and there
would be times I would neet a drill press. There would be times when a
circular saw would do and there would be times when a table saw would be the
better tools.
As a developer, if all a carried in my trick bag was one tool, I would have
trouble accomplishing certain jobs. R:Base is a tool that is still
appropriate for a lot of solutions. VB has turned out to be more
appropriate in other siuations. While it is very easy to discount VB
because of its cost, you have to remember the adage that it is not the cost,
but the value that is important.
I can understand the euphoria that comes from VB developers over the
features they discover on VB that they do not find in R:Base. If one were
to complain about the lack of these features it would be like the new car
buyer complaining the his Taurus did not not have the leather seats his
friends Rolls Royce had.
It is not that we cannot compare R:Base to VB. It is that you cannot
discount either product because of the advantages the other one has. Both
products "Rulz" in their appropriate situation and both Bill and Razzak
should be credited for providing valuable tools for developers.
Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On
Behalf Of Manuel de Aguiar
Sent: Friday, July 13, 2001 12:44 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: IF VB IS SO GOOD WHY ARE YOU USING RBASE!
Hello Mike,
Oh BOY, here I am again, rocking the boat! Oh well I guess this post
wont
make me many friends ........
Mike, you keep praising a language (VB) but fail to mention how Microsoft
has
screwed all the developers and end users that have loyally supported that
platform for years. With the advent of the VB.NET platform now 90% of
complex
VB 6.0 code that developers have written will BECOMES OBSOLETE. Major
costly
rework will be needed by the developers in order to make it work with the
new
incompatible version of VB. This is a serious issue that you purposely
downplay
in your posts. This obsolesces was purposely created by Microsoft. I say
purposely because VB6.0 has only been out for a few years. Microsoft
actions
clearly demonstrate how little they care about their developers and their
customers. Even articles in VB Magazine, a whore of Microsoft, print the
complaints of developers facing a tremendous cost to keep their applications
viable caused by the incompatibility of two most recent versions. Of
course, if
you have a deployed application in VB4.0 or VB5.0 forget upgrade and a
reasonable cost.
It is very different for a users of RBase 2.11 to complaint that they
have
to spend some bucks to move to RBase for Windows. This is a change of
operating
system and the upgrade of a 12 years ++ old database engine. But for a
customer
that has finished paying a developer for an application in VB6.0 to now have
to
pay BIG BUCKS just so that their new application does not become obsolete is
A
CRIME.
I can just imagine your comments about RBase Technology if version 7.0
has
the same degree of incompatibility with version 6.5 as VB6.0 has with
VB.NET.
I have read your numerous posting on the list server where you subtly badger
RBase by praising the superiority of VB, Your constant evangelizing of VB
to
lure developers to leave RBase and follow the yellow brick road to MS. I
wonder
WHY ARE YOU USING RBASE! In your comments, you give Rbase a small "at
boy"
with a light tap on the back with your right hand and a left hook to the gut
with the other. Why do you do this?
Today I got off the wrong side of the bed and your numerous posts
praising
VB and badgering RBase and Tango rub me the wrong way. I am sorry if I
sound a
bit irritated but I AM. You have the right to your opinions and to express
them
PUBLICLY just like I have mine. What irritates me is that this list server
is
an open list server. That means that customers, potential customers, as
well as
developers participate. I do not want any potential customer that can be MY
CUSTOMER to be mislead by unchallenged negative commentaries. This is a
wonderful forum to learn and improve our skills as developers where
customers
and potential customer can get a feel about the RBase Developer community.
To
see you use this RBase forum to subtly badger the product and praise
Microsoft
is irritating to me. It would be like me driving a Ford and telling the
mechanics and the customer at the Ford dealership what a piece of crap it is
and
how great is the Honda I also own. You have the right to say anything you
want
publicly but I also have the same right to rebuttal it.
I apologize to the RBase customers that participate on this list server
if
my comments has offended. Your decision to purchase and support RBase
Technologies was and is a SOUND DECISION. If you are a potential RBase
customer
do not let these attack suede you. RBase is the most robust stable engine
in
its class out there. It is the fastest deployment platform for COMPLEX
APPLICATIONS in the market. RBase has TREMENDOUS scalebility. Is is not
design
for force you into a more expensive system when you grow. It has tremendous
developers tools. These tools translate into faster development and if It
can
be developed in less time IT WILL SIMPLY COST YOU LESS.
I have been involved in Database Development since 1985. After
frustrations with MSBasic and dBase, I chose RBase because it was the most
complete and robust database environment, from a developer perspective, on
the
market. I remember how dBase was the word in everybody's lip and how this
pseudo relational database was praise by all the "experts". RBase has been
around for a long long time and during this time it has evolved and improved
to
the best database engine in its class in the world.
RBASE CUSTOMERS YOU HAVE MADE THE RIGHT CHOICE, NOT ONLY BECAUSE OF THE
PRODUCT
YOU HAVE PURCHASED BUT THE PEOPLE THAT DRIVE THE PRODUCT.
There are many many examples of how RBase Technologies has LISTENED to
their customers and developers and deliver solutions and not excuses. All
the
years that I have been associated with Rbase the main theme has always been
to
make their products better and backward compatible. Who else has a database
engine today that can be accessed by a computer running DOS, by another
computer
running ANY VERSION of current Windows, by users on the Internet, and soon
by
Linux computers, all at the same time? How about the recent change of a new
command from PHONE to RPHONE. RBase Technologies recognized that once the
command is out there, developers that implement it will be faced with
additional
time to modify the deployed code and it will impose an added expense to the
end
user to pay for the changes. Thus, they change the command IMMEDIATELY.
Another example of how RBase have strode to provide its customers and
developers backward compatibility is the R> in the windows environment. To
accomplish what can be done from the [R>] R prompt in other languages is
simply
impossible. Oracle's and Pervassive's R> prompt counter parts are the most
archaic and Mickey Mouse tools that I have ever had the displeasure of
using.
There are many, many, many more examples of how RBase ACTIONS have clearly
demonstrated to me that TOP in their priorities is THE CUSTOMERS and the
developers. I like this because it is exactly the way I handle by business
practice.
OK I am done. Now you can pounce on me. I have my arms over my head
in a
fetal position ready to take the hits. At least the acidity of my stomach
has
gone down and I did not have to bite the dog and kick the neighbor.
Manuel
Mike Byerley wrote:
> The principle difference between using Tango vs. VB is Tango has one use,
VB
> many. I empathize with people that have already invested time learning
> Tango.
Left Hook to the GUT!!!!!!!
> I think back to 92 and 93, a company I was working with had a person in
> house with VBA experience and was doing a few things in Excel and Access.
I
> was adamant that I wasn't going to learn VB (at the time I was doing a
> little work in C), what with the robustness of RBase language!
A little tap on the back..... I think?
> It was two years later when I changed my mind. In retrospect (isn't
> hindsight always a little clearer) wish I had investigated a little deeper
> so I could have made an informed decision, based in fact, instead of an
> emotional one, based in the belief that the one big arrow in my quiver
would
> be sufficient for any work I would do.
Another left hook!
> With VB you speak the language of perhaps several hundred thousand
> developers. Also, the curly brace deal from C++ is present in java
script.
> The structure of jscript is similar to C and as I have said previously,
> jscript should also be an addition to your toolbox.
Yet another left!
> Hell, if I was 25 years old, I would learn Tango and also how to Tango,
> but at this stage (only 5 years to social security. yuk!) I want to focus
a
> little more on the things I know will offer me the most utility to provide
> the best bang for the buck for myself and my customers.
A hook with a joke!
>
> mike
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------
Subject:
Re: RBWIN, Moving a simple app to the Internet
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 11:24:43 -0500
From: "Mike Byerley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
References: 1 , 2
Apart from the obvious (web server or hosting provider that will accommodate
your Rbase / Oterro drivers installation), you won't need anything else. I
Left Hook to the Gut!!
would go ahead and dive into VB with gusto, but I believe you would be best
to adopt the VB.net approach (you can get the beta2 VB.net development
environment free download or S&H for the CD, keeping in mind, I would not
install a beta on any machine that is your primary development machine. You
cannot predict that the Beta could be excised successfully or overwritten by
the final version). VB.net allows you to start a project as either a
standard Windows application or a Web based application and after that
selection, the process in nearly identical (from my reading, not from
experience). You create the forms and they are rendered as html at runtime
from the compiled project that runs on the server. No web classes to mess
with, and all the events and procedures are programmed just like the Windows
environment (with the events and procedures tied to the form). Pretty
slick. But you can also just go ahead with VB6 and follow the updates on
VB.net at www.devx.com as I do and any new application you are developing,
follow the model to make it as easy as possible to upgrade later to VB.net.
mike
